Guide to Cataclysm Protection Paladin PVP (Videos)


This guide discusses Prot Pally PVP in the Cataclysm (Cata) expansion, Patch 4.0.6. This guide provides comprehensive written material and narrated PVP videos.

Please post your feedback, tips, and questions!

Revision History

The first version of this Guide was posted on Oct 14 2010. It has been through many revisions since then; here is the change log for recent revisions:

  • 2011 Mar 05: updated 4.1 notes
  • 2011 Feb 28: added links to comments that document previous Patch changes (4.0.3a, 4.0.6). Added my take on 4.1 changes
  • 2011 Feb 24: added note re: glyphing SoT for Expertise
  • 2011 Feb 22: added more notes on Resil
  • 2011 Feb 12: rewrote heal macros for clarity (and hopefully so that they work more consistently)
  • 2011 Feb 11: mass update for 4.0.6

Table of Contents

  1. Mechanics Overview
  2. Resource Mechanics
  3. Burst and Sustained Damage Mechanics
  4. Healing Mechanics
  5. Bubble and Mitigation Mechanics
  6. Crowd Control Mechanics
  7. Seal Mechanics
  8. Team Support Mechanics
  9. Recommended Talents and Glyphs
  10. Stats / Enchants / Gems / Gear Recommendations
  11. General PVP Tips and Tactics
  12. Macros
  13. UI / Addons / Power Auras
  14. Recent Patch Changes
  15. Narrated PVP Videos
  16. About the Author

1. Mechanics Overview

The good news is that Prot is a viable PVP spec :)

Prot is a good fit for you if:

  • You want to be a melee, and
  • You want to be durable, and
  • You want to have the capability of generating solid burst damage, and
  • You want to have tools to support groups and spot-heal

Here is a brief summary of the spec’s mechanics:

  1. Our spec-defining ability is Avenger’s Shield (AS), which is an excellent ranged ability that interrupts/silences the target and when glyphed can provide good burst and apply a daze effect
  2. Our cast-time heals are mana inefficient and do not heal for large amounts. We do have a mana-free “mitigation” heal called Word of Glory (WoG) that is instant cast
  3. We have multiple mitigation abilities to work with, and when chained together they significantly increase time-to-live
  4. Shield of the Righteous (SotR) is our new melee “Execute” ability capable of big burst when used with 3 stacks of HoPo and the Sacred Duty (SD) buff
  5. Mana typically isn’t an issue as long as you keep casting Judgement and are careful not to spam-cast cast-time heals
  6. Our Judgement spells have been replaced by one Judgement spell. The downside to this is we don’t have the pre-4.0 flexibility of mixing Seals and Judgments with different effects, e.g. the popular combination of Judgement of Justice (applies debuff that limits run speed) with the damage-over-time (DoT) Seal. To apply the run speed limiting debuff in 4.0  you have to use Seal of Justice but the catch is your damage will take a significant hit relative to using Seal of Truth, which is a scaled-down version of the old Seal of Vengeance / Corruption
  7. We no longer cast Holy Shield (HS); the HS buff is triggered through the use of Shield of the Righteous (SotR) or WoG. The HS buff has a modest impact in PVP – it increases damage blocked from 30% to 40% (mitigation not chance)

2. Resource Mechanics

We have two resources to manage:

  1. Mana
  2. Holy Power

We generate mana via the Judgments of the Wise built-in passive which generates 30% of our mana over 10 seconds when Judgement lands on a target successfully. The Sanctuary talent also generates mana when we Block or Dodge. That being said, there are some situations where you may find yourself getting low on mana:

  • You are chain casting heals, e.g. Flash of Light (FoL)
  • Your target is > 10 yards away so you can’t cast Judgment
  • You use mana-intensive abilities, such as Holy Radiance (HR) or Consecration without the talent Hallowed Ground (HG)

I’ve found it helpful to invest 2 points in Improved Judgement (IJ) to extend the range of Judgement to 30 yards. More on this later. I don’t think HG is worth the investment so I only use Consecration when I have enough mana to work with.

We still have Divine Plea (DP) to regen mana, but with the change in 4.0.3a to Shield of the Templar, the most valuable use for Prot for DP is to generate 3 Holy Power instantly.

As of Patch 4.0, all Paladins have a new class mechanic called Holy Power (HoPo). For Prot, Hammer of the Righteous (HotR) and Crusader Strike (CS) build 1 HoPo per use – assuming the blow is not dodge/parried and the target is not immune – up to 3 total (note that HotR and CS now have a shared 3-second cooldown).

We have to manage HoPo carefully. It’s advisable to use your ranged attacks (e.g. AS, Judgment) while closing a gap so that you can cast HotR / CS as soon as you are in melee range to build HoPo.

At 85, you can spend HoPo to cast:

  • SotR for the burst damage
  • WoG for the heal
  • Inquisition for the damage buff

I like the HoPo mechanic because it adds flexibility and situational control – YOU can choose how to spend it and it makes gameplay more dynamic. It reminds me of the awesome Righteous Fury mechanic from Warhammer Online.

3. Burst and Sustained Damage Mechanics

We generate most of our burst from the following abilities:

  • AS
  • SotR
  • Hammer of Wrath (HoW) on targets at 20% or less health

I do not typically use Inquisition in PVP. While it’s excellent for AOE PVE tanking, the Inquisition buff is not guaranteed to provide value in PVP given that you may be CC’d during the time the buff is up. One case where Inquisition is valuable is when casting it prior to a high-burst sequence with Avenging Wrath and a 3-HoPo SotR with Sacred Duty up.

It’s worth noting that these (and some other Paladin) attacks deal Holy damage, which is not mitigated by any resistance. If you’ve read my class guides for other games, you may recall that I favor non-Physical damage, e.g. Swordmaster’s Spirit damage in Warhammer Online and Orc Reaver’s Fire damage in LOTRO, because targets tend to feel equally squishy when you are dealing damage that is not mitigated by armor or resistance.

AS has a 15-second cooldown, and that cooldown can be reset via a 20% proc (with talents) from HotR / CS. Because of this, you want to use AS early and often. Pre-4.0 sometimes we would wait for the right moment to use AS (e.g. chain CC a Healer/Caster for a burst sequence) but that rationale isn’t as valid anymore.

SotR packs a wallop when it crits at 3 HoPo. In general, you should not use SotR unless

  • You have 3 HoPo, due to the damage scaling, and
  • You have the Sacred Duty (SD) buff proc from Judgment

The SD buff guarantees that SotR will crit. Given that our Crit % has dropped significantly at 85 (i.e. from ~25% at 80 to < 10% at 85) it’s unlikely that SotR will crit without SD.

We generate solid sustained damage from our Seal of Truth (SoT) ability, which is a scaled-down version of the pre-4.0 Seal of Vengeance / Seal of Corruption. It’s also our only DoT so it’s useful for whittling away kiting targets or when we’re CC’d. As of 4.0.6 all single target attacks (including Judgement, Hammer of Wrath, Exorcism, and Templar’s Verdict) can now trigger SoT.

CS and HotR are our main spam attacks so their total damage adds up – typically ~20% of my total damage. They share the same cooldown. CS is Physical damage and delivers decent burst. HotR is an AOE that delivers low single-target Physical damage and AOE Holy damage. I generally favor CS over HotR because it hits significantly harder and PVP is often about focus-firing one target at a time.

4. Healing Mechanics

With the increase in HP pool sizes to 120K+ in blue PVP gear and the lack of scaling for our cast-time heals, we are limited in terms of our in-combat healing capability at 85:

  • FoL is very mana intensive (~25% of total mana) but only heals for ~8% of max HP
  • Divine Light (DL) has a long cast time and is therefore easy to pushback/interrupt/silence. Holy Light (HL) takes as long to cast as DL, but if you have the Crusader talent proc HL heals for more than DL, so HL is a nice patch-up heal after you get a killing blow and can freecast a slow heal
  • WoG heals for ~4% of max HP per HoPo, so it’s not worth using the cooldown unless you have multiple stacks or you really need a heal immediately to buy time
  • We have an AoE HoT called Holy Radiance (HR)
  • Lay on Hands (LoH) is our silver bullet, but it has a lengthy cooldown (10m or 7m glyphed) and is not usable in arena
  • Seal of Insight (SoI) isn’t guaranteed to proc on melee auto attacks and it heals for a very low amount, so this seal is not worth using for Prot. The mana regen effect from SoI is not useful given that we have other effective mana regen tools already

I consider WoG and HR to be “mitigation heals” – they will not outheal incoming damage but they will enable you to stretch out a fight. Check out the Cataclysm 2v2 video posted Dec 22nd in Section 15 – you can see that WoG healing enabled me or my partner to stay alive long enough to win matches.

When you overheal yourself with WoG, the Guarded by the Light (GbtL) talent converts that excess WoG healing into a temporary absorption bubble.

To boost your healing output, you can glyph SoI and WoG (credit: Donnar), but given that our heals don’t scale well at 85, I would recommend taking 0 or 1 of those glyphs.

5. Bubble and Mitigation Mechanics

As with pre-4.0, we can cast Hand of Protection (HoP) on friendly targets to bubble them from Physical damage.

What has changed in 4.0/Cata:

  • Sacred Shield (SS) is now a Ret talent and therefore not available to Holy or Prot @ 85
  • Divine Shield (DS) duration was reduced from 12 to 8 second
  • Divine Protection (DPr) has been changed to a 10-second 20% damage mitigation ability for the Paladin on a 1-min cooldown that no longer procs the Forbearance debuff. So this is an ability that should get a lot of use whenever you are taking focus fire. It is dispellable
  • The passive talent Ardent Defender (AD) was changed from a passive to on-use ability (ugh!) and is dispellable
  • We gain an awesome mitigation ability at 85 called Guardian of Ancient Kings (GoAK) which is not dispellable and mitigates damage by 50% for 12s. This ability in some ways is better than DS because your damage output is not affected, the duration is 50% longer, and it does not put Forbearance on you

Per Tullkas’s testing, when you use both DPr and AD, they stack additively (20% + 20% = 40% total mitigation, or 60% damage taken). DPr / AD seem to stack multiplicatively with GoAK; i.e. if you have GoAK and DPr up at the same time, you take 40% damage (50% mitigated by GoAK, then 20% of the remaining 50% of the damage is mitigated by DPr).

When we block a melee attack with a shield, we mitigate 30% of the damage or 40% if HS is up. Note that we can’t block spells, which limits the value of the Block and Mastery stats.

6. Crowd Control Mechanics

Our stun, Hammer of Justice (HoJ), has a cooldown of 40 seconds with talents.

The daze (snare/slow) effect was removed from the base AS ability but you can and should glyph it back.

Aside from AS, our only “snare” ability is SoJ, but it’s not really a snare, it’s a run speed limiting debuff. As noted in the Overview, we can’t mix and match different Seals and Judgments as we did pre-4.0, because now there is only 1 Judgement spell. Note that SoJ only applies on melee attacks, so you have to close to melee range first before the debuff is applied, whereas pre-4.0 we could apply Judgement of Justice from range.

In 4.0.6 all Paladins can train Rebuke, which is a melee interrupt on a 10 sec cooldown that lockouts the target from the interrupted spell’s school for 4 sec.

7. Seal Mechanics

We have four Seals:

  • Seal of Insight (SoI): chance to restore mana/health on melee hit
  • Seal of Judgement (SoJ): applies run-buff removing debuff on melee hit
  • Seal of Righteousness (SoR): adds Holy damage on melee hit
  • Seal of Truth (SoT): same as the pre-4.0 SoV/SoC DoT on melee hit

SoI provides a very minor amount of healing and is therefore not helpful for Prot. In my experience you don’t need SoI for mana regen if you have IJ talented or when you are fighting melees and have Sanctuary talented as your Blocks regen mana. (FWIW, SoI isn’t useful for Prot PVE either, because we glyph SoT to provide an Expertise bonus, and this is necessary to reduce chance for a boss to Parry / Dodge, and the Parry decrease is a big factor as Parry resets a boss’s swing timer.)

SoJ is situational. I’ve found that the effect’s value has been decreased with the increased usage we get out of AS and the fact that you have to melee to apply the debuff, whereas pre-4.0 you could cast JoJ up to 10 yards away to apply the debuff.

SoR adds a flat amount of damage to melee attacks and Judgement but it never crits.

SoT is superior to SoR as a DPS seal in PVP. SoT DoT ticks (Censure in the Combat Log) can crit, and once SoT is stacked to 5, every attack delivers extra damage (Seal of Truth in the Combat Log). As of 4.0.6 all single target attacks (including Judgement, Hammer of Wrath, Exorcism, and Templar’s Verdict) can now trigger SoT.

8. Team Support Mechanics

As with pre-4.0, we can cast Hand of Protection (HoP) on friendly targets to bubble them from Physical damage.

Divine Guardian (DG) was changed to be an AOE raid buff that decreases damage taken – without transferring that damage to the Paladin – and this scales incredibly well the more friendly targets are under attack. Given the lack of damage transfer we can no longer use DG as a tool to pre-emptively break CC such as Sheep/Blind/etc. However, we still have Hand of Sacrifice (HoS) which transfers damage from the friendly target to the Paladin.

In mass combat it’s very helpful to cast DG and HR – this can buy just enough time for friendlies to survive to affect the outcome of a big fight.

In 4.0, the Druid buff Mark of the Wild (MotW) and Paladin buff Blessing of Kings (BoK) provide the same buff, so if you have a Druid in your party/raid you should buff Blessing of Might (BoM).

9. Recommended Talents and Glyphs

Here is the recommended 0/31/10 “Protribution” spec at 85:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZGrMcRzdRRucbG:szcVdzmMz

Here are comments on the mechanics of select Prot talents:

  1. Eternal Glory (EG): we are dependent on HoPo for our healing (WoG) and SotR burst damage, and EG makes 30% of your WoG casts consume no HoPo
  2. Grand Crusader (GC): synergizes with AS by having a 20% chance to remove the cooldown when using HotR or CS. Amazing talent
  3. Sacred Duty: synergizes with SotR to make it crit more often. Amazing talent
  4. Shield of the Templar (SotT): this talent provides multiple benefits – in particular it reduces GoAK’s cooldown from 5 min to 3 min and enables Divine Plea to instantly generate 3 HoPo

Guarded by the Light (GbtL) buffs WoG healing and causes it to proc the HS block buff, which provides a modest mitigation increase. GbtL is no longer must-have as it was in 4.0 before 4.0.3a, but I still take it.

You’ll notice that I took all the Prot tree talents (31 points total) except the following:

  • Toughness: armor is useless against bleeds and non-Physical damage (i.e. Spells)
  • Hallowed Ground: buffs Consecration. I passed on this talent because most players will simply move of Consecration and the cooldown of Consecration is too high for my liking
  • Reckoning: don’t spec into Reckoning now because not only is Seal damage nerfed (previously, Reckoning’s extra melee attacks proc’d your Seal) – in addition, Reckoning now only procs off Blocks not your melee attacks (credit: Elemental)

As far as where to invest talent points outside of the Prot tree:

  • Crusade: buffs the damage from our main spam attacks so it’s worth considering. As of 4.0.3a, also procs the Crusader buff which increases the next HL heal by 300%
  • Improved Judgement (IJ): the extra 20 yard range for Judgement is surprisingly useful. It not only provides better ranged damage capability but also helps mana regeneration when you have no nearby targets to Judge and can drop a target down to the HoW threshold. As of 4.0.6 Judgement stacks SoT, so IJ increases the range that you can stack your SoT DoT. Some Paladins IMO greatly underestimate IJ’s utility in PVP
  • Rule of Law: provides a 15% increase in Crit rate for frequently-used abilities (CS/HotR and WoG)
  • Pursuit of Justice (PoJ): buffs movement by 15%, which is better than any enchant. And it enables some CC effects cast on you to generate 1 HoPo

For Prime Glyphs: SotR and WoG are must-have. Your 3rd glyph should either be CS or SoT. With CS no longer generating HoPo if the target dodges/parries, it’s now worthwhile to glyph SoT for the Expertise buff, which should reduce your target’s chance to dodge by 2.5% and parry by 2.5%.

There are 2 must-have Major Glyphs:

  1. Dazing Shield Major Glyph: applies the run debuff daze effect we had prior to 4.0
  2. Focused Shield Major Glyph: this is the same glyph was had pre-4.0 for buffing AS damage

For the 3rd Major Glyph, I recommend taking Hammer of Justice (HoJ) – the extra 5 yards to our stun can be a life-saver. You can also slot LoH, which in 4.0.3a was changed from a Minor to Major glyph. Situationally (i.e. against Locks and DK’s) Turn Evil is very useful.

For Minor Glyphs: doesn’t really matter. I slotted both Blessings. I would have thought Insight would be worthwhile but you typically won’t go OOM – I slotted Truth.

10. Stats / Enchants / Gems / Gear Recommendations

Stats

Summary: Strength and Resilience are our most important PVP stats

  • Each point of Strength grants 2 AP (2.10 with BoK/MotW) and through the Touched by the Light (TbtL) passive 0.60 Spell Power (0.63 with BoK/MotW). TbtL is the reason why Prot favors Strength over Attack Power (AP). If you want to boost your damage and healing, this is the stat to stack
  • Resilience provides passive always-on mitigation (i.e. reduction)  for all damage in PVP. If you want to improve your survivability, this is the most important stat. Note that once you have a full set of PVP gear, you probably won’t need to gem/enchant any Resil – what you get from gear and socket bonuses is sufficient – and in most PVP situations opponents won’t be targeting you anyway (unless you are the Flag Carrier)

Some players have theorized that Intellect is better than Strength point-for-point as many Paladin abilities have coefficients for Spell Power. Given that we “double-dip” from Str with the TbtL mechanic, Str is better point-for-point compared to Int.

Stat Myths

There are a lot of guides that are (unfortunately) providing misinformation about which stats to stack for Prot. I’ll go through stat myths one-by-one.

“Stack Mastery to boost your survivability”

The Prot Mastery Divine Bulwark boosts Block %, but Block doesn’t do anything against Spells. Mastery does provide some value against melee opponents but not enough to stack.

In addition, you can only block attacks from your front-facing and when you are not incapacitated.

You will gain far more survivability from Resilience than Mastery.

“Stack Stamina to boost your survivability”

Stam does not scale based on the amount of incoming damage whereas Resilience does. For other classes (esp Healers) there may be valid arguments for stacking Stam.

I have seen the benefits of passive mitigation, from stats such as Resilience, over Stam in other games – e.g. Toughness in WAR.

“Stack Stamina because it provides a DPS boost via Vengeance”

Vengeance only consistently stacks anywhere near max in PVE because bosses deal very high sustained DPS which more than offsets the fast rate of Vengeance decay. However in PVP you will rarely get to 75% max Vengeance, let alone 100%. You can easily test this in PVP with the Vengeance Status addon. If you watch any of my videos from Nov 27, 2010 on, you can see my Vengeance Status bar below the HoPo bar.

Keep in mind that any additional benefit from stacking Stam would only kick in after you reach the amount of Vengeance before stacking Stam. Therefore, stacking Stam for the DPS benefit would be as helpful as wearing a floatable life vest while driving a car to prevent drowning – it might help in that rare case you drive into a body of water but otherwise it’s of no value.

“Haste is a good stat for Prot”

Haste is pretty useless for Prot. Remember that Prot is an ability-cooldown-limited spec, not a global-cooldown-limited spec, and that the vast majority of our abilities are instant cast. The only benefits you get from stacking Haste are fasting cast-time heals and slightly faster auto-attacks. In most situations the only in-combat cast-time heal you’ll be able to reliably cast is FoL and it already has a short cast-time and its main mechanics issues (mana inefficiency, small healing amount) are not addressed with Haste.

If you are wondering why Ret Pallies talk about Haste so much – it reduces the cooldown of CS through the Sanctity of Battle talent, which is not applicable for Prot.

Enchants

  • Weapon: Landslide or Avalanche
  • Shield: Titanium Plating – please note this is a must-have for the 50% Disarm reduction as we can’t generate HoPo when Disarmed
  • Head:  60 Str/35 Resil (PVP enchant)
  • Shoulders: 50 Str/25 Crit (Therazane faction) or 50 Str / 25 Resil (PVP enchant)
  • Back: 65 or 50 Crit
  • Chest: 20 Stats, 15 Stats, or 40 Resil
  • Wrist: 50 Str, 65 Crit, or 50 Hit
  • Hands: 50 or 35 Strength
  • Waist: Ebonsteel Belt Buckle for the 2nd gem slot
  • Legs: Dragonscale Leg Armor
  • Feet: 50 Hit

Gems

  • Red sockets: always Str
  • Yellow sockets: Str/Crit, Str/Resil, or Resil
  • Blue sockets: Str/Hit
  • Meta socket: Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond (+54 Str and 3% Increased Critical Damage)

Reforging

Reforge the following stats to Hit until you reach the 5% cap, then reforge to Crit:

  • Haste (almost completely useless for Prot)
  • Mastery (only helpful against melees)
  • Expertise (actually not that bad, reduces avoidance for any target)

Gear

In general you should stick with PVP gear instead of PVE gear, given that there are 1+ PVP items with Strength and Resilience for each slot. You want to use the Pally Scaled PVP set and off-set plate pieces and the accessories that have Strength on them.

Make sure that your first purchase with Conqueror points is a/the weapon – this is the case for any MDPS class or Hunter. Get the Mace (Vicious Gladiator’s Bonecracker) or Axe (Vicious Gladiator’s Hacker), as these have the highest max-damage number for 2.6 Str weapons. The Sword (Vicious Gladiator’s Slicer) is a no-no because it has a lower max-damage number and PVP is all about burst. If you play a Human or Dwarf Paladin, take the Mace over the Axe per the 3 Expertise racial (contributed by: Marko, Tullkas).

For PVP shield, get Vicious Gladiator’s Shield Wall.

Aside from the classic PVP trinket which removes CC, we have two Str trinkets available that have different mechanics:

Which trinket (Insignia or Badge) depends on what are you trying to maximize:

  • For controlled burst, go with the Badge
  • For higher average benefit, go with the Insignia

For a great breakdown on the new PVP points systems and the order to buy PVP pieces, read Cynwise’s excellent article on PVP Gear in Cataclysm for Season 9. If you want to understand the relationship between arena team rating and weekly max Conqueror points, check out Felbent’s chart or a points calculator. Keep in mind that a Prot Pally can buy their 1H weapon with 2 days of Arena – Monday and Tuesday – it’s super easy.

The one non-PVP item you should consider picking up is Darkmoon Card Hurricane (DMCH), as Andy suggested:

the main reason for my post was to mention that this spec does really well with the Darkmoon Hurricane deck. Average damage is around 5k’ish but it can crit and I’ve seen 8k+ numbers from it previously. On my damage meter it’s normally sitting just below my melee or auto attack damage. If you don’t need the resilience from the other trinkets I would recommend grabbing this trinket for this spec.

DMCH synergizes great with our class mechanics!

11. General PVP Tips and Tactics

  1. When closing the gap to opponents, open with AS and Judgement – there is no point anymore in saving AS. You want to use CS or HotR as soon as you are in melee range to start building HoPo and to proc the cooldown reset for AS
  2. Use enemy Pets as Holy Power batteries, esp as you are making your way to your target while they are kiting you. Against Mages, do not get caught in No Man’s Land – where you are taking fire from the Mage and their pets but are out of melee range of any of them
  3. Remember that CS / HotR will not build Holy Power on an Immune (e.g. bubbled / Ice Block’d) target or a target that dodges or parries your attack (e.g. Rogue with Evasion), so plan accordingly
  4. If you are low on health and have 3 Holy Power and your opponent is also at low health but above Hammer of Wrath range, you can choose to finish with SotR or heal with WoG. If you go with WoG you have a 30% chance to get an EG proc which restores those 3 Holy Power and you can use SotR immediately. It really depends on the situation, but against DPS classes going the WoG route is the more conservative play in 1v1s
  5. If you need to bubble yourself to heal up, it’s a good idea to use a GCD while you’re bubbled to cast Judgement, which procs your mana regen. Then spam-cast FoL. That way you can heal up without going bone dry on mana

12. Macros

Macros can be a HUGE help for simplifying your keybinds and thereby improving gameplay. Below are some of the key macros you see me using throughout my videos.

CS / Judgement

This macro is simply for convenience, so I can hit the same button at least 3 times in a row when engaging a target in melee range:

#showtooltip

/castsequence reset=2 crusader strike, judgement, crusader strike

I do also keybind Judgement separately, so that I can use it without having to use CS first.

HotR / Judgement

Same macro as the previous one, but for HotR

#showtooltip

/castsequence reset=2 hammer of the righteous, judgement, hammer of the righteous

Bubble Me or You or Us

#showtooltip

/cast [mod:ctrl] divine guardian; [help] hand of protection; divine shield

Here’s how this macro works:

  • If you hit the macro with the Ctrl key, you bubble everyone else
  • If you have a friendly player targeted and you hit the macro, you bubble them with HoP
  • If you don’t have a friendly player targeted you bubble yourself with DS

As a side note, I map this macro to the “B” key (“B” as in “Bubble”) for easy recall.

Mitigation Chaining (DP / GoAK / AD)

/cast [mod:ctrl] guardian of ancient kings
/castsequence reset=30 divine protection, guardian of ancient kings, ardent defender

Divine Plea On / Off

#showtooltip
/cancelaura Divine Plea
/cast Divine Plea

Pressing this once will cast DP, which generates 3 HoPo, and pressing it again will remove DP. This is a great macro if you need an emergency WoG heal or SotR.

Cast-Time Focus Heal

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:ctrl] holy light
/cast [@focus, mod:shift, nodead] flash of light; flash of light

If you press Shift with this macro, you FoL your focus. Otherwise you either cast FoL or HL.

WoG Focus Heal

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:ctrl] holy radiance
/cast [@focus, mod:shift, nodead] word of glory; word of glory

If you press Shift with this macro, you WoG your focus. Otherwise you either cast WoG or HR.

Hand of Sacrifice

#showtooltip hand of sacrifice
/cast [help] hand of sacrifice; [target=focus, exists, nodead] hand of sacrifice

If you have a friendly player targeted, this casts HoS on them. Otherwise this macro casts it on your focus target, if you have one.

In-Combat Aura Switch

/cancelaura

/castsequence retribution aura, resistance aura

Before engaging in combat, use this macro to get to the Aura you want to have up. Then during combat you can simply hit the macro to switch to the other Aura. For simplicity, I map this macro to the “A” key (“A” as in “Aura”) for easy recall.

Maximum Burst (credit: Spiegelmann)

Cast Inquisition (with your 2 HoPo) for 8 secs

Activate my macro:
#showtooltip
/use Bloodthirsty Gladiator’s badge of Victory
/cast Divine Plea
/cast Avenging Wrath

Then SotR

PVP Self-Buff

No Druid around, use this:

/castsequence reset=10 blessing of kings, seal of truth

With a Druid around, use this:

/castsequence reset=10 blessing of might, seal of truth

13. UI / Addons / Power Auras

To turn on enemy health bars with class colors with the default UI functionality:

  1. to show the health bar over all players, use the keybind for Show All Name Plates
  2. to color the health bars of enemy players per their class: check the box for: Options | Interface| Combat | Class Colors in Nameplates

I recommend the following addons specifically for Prot:

  • Range Display: this simple but highly useful addon shows distance to target, focus, and mouseover
  • Power Auras: highly customizable addon that can display buffs, debuffs, procs, etc. Non-trivial to learn. Below are some Auras I use
  • OmniCC: displays numeric cooldown over your abilities
  • Quartz: elegant cast bar addon, shows latency
  • Rogue Spam Reborn: suppresses annoying error messages including “you have no target” or “out of range” et al
  • Vengeance Status: displays your current Vengeance AP buff. RAWR!

For Arenas, the following two addons are must-have:

  • Gladius: provides enemy health, mana, and casting bars
  • Gladiminish: enhances Gladius to provide diminishing return timers for CC

Power Auras

Please do not ask me technical questions about how to use PA, you can ask those on the addon site.

Here are some of my auras:

  • Hammer of Wrath: when HoW is usable on your target, this aura displays the HoW icon and makes a clear sword unsheathing sound

Version:4.4; ignoremaj:false; icon:INV_Hammer_04; buffname:Hammer of Wrath; x:99; bufftype:7; owntex:true; isResting:0; inVehicle:0; sound:50; exact:true; size:0.15; texmode:2; ismounted:0

  • Sacred Duty: when SD procs, this aura displays the SD icon with the timer til the buff expires and makes a clear bell ringing sound

Version:4.4; ignoremaj:false; icon:Ability_Paladin_JudgementRed; buffname:Sacred Duty; x:136; owntex:true; isResting:0; mine:true; inVehicle:0; sound:36; exact:true; size:0.15; texmode:2; ismounted:0; timer.g:0.1882; timer.h:1.11; timer.enabled:true; timer.r:0.1451; timer.cents:false; timer.Relative:BOTTOM; timer.Transparent:true

  • Crusade: if you land the KB on an opponent, you get this buff icon with timer. The buff increases your next HL cast by 300%

Version:4.9; ignoremaj:false; icon:Spell_Holy_Crusade; buffname:Crusader; x:172; owntex:true; isResting:0; mine:true; inVehicle:0; sound:61; exact:true; size:0.15; texmode:2; ismounted:0; timer.g:0.1882; timer.h:1.11; timer.enabled:true; timer.r:0.1451; timer.cents:false; timer.Relative:BOTTOM; timer.Transparent:true

14. Recent Patch Changes

The Devs are still making a lot of tweaks to Paladins in Patch 4.x. Below is a summary of changes (documented and undocumented) for recent patches and their impacts.

Current Live Version: 4.0.6

Analysis for Previous Versions: 4.0.3a | 4.0.6

My comments for changes are in italics.

Patch 4.1 Changes (Official Patch Notes)

Word of Glory: We want Retribution and Protection paladins to have reasonable healing on themselves or others, but we know paladins sometimes feel like they can’t use their Holy Power on anything but their heals in some situations. We’d rather these two specs spend most of their Holy Power on damage-dealing abilities, with occasional healing.

IMO Prot and Ret will be steeply nerfed PVP if the WoG nerf goes in with even a 5-sec cooldown let alone 20-sec, without some other strong compensating mechanics, e.g. increased CC.

Back-to-back WoG heals (via Eternal Glory for either spec, or Divine Purpose for Ret) or WoG heals cast within 2 GCDs of each other (e.g. WoG, Divine Plea, WoG) are a huge part of what make Prot and Ret viable in PVP.

Anyone who debates that point IMO is either ignorant about the mechanics of those specs in PVP or biased against Paladins.

I’m very perplexed by the reasoning for the nerf mentioned by Blizzard. Granted, Blue posters often get skewered / nitpicked by players for anything they say, but this is one case where I think the concerns of the playerbase are entirely warranted.

I have read some inane arguments that Prot and Ret shouldn’t have offhealing capability in PVP, but what the people saying those things fail to take into account is that relative to other DPS classes, we lack CC. As such, we heal because that’s what is needed in some situations to help friendly players, because we can’t peel to the extent other classes do.

  • Walk in the Light (passive) removes the cooldown of Word of Glory. N/A for Prot
  • Divine Guardian cooldown is now 3 minutes, up from 2. Minor nerf to Prot
  • Grand Crusader will now generate a charge of Holy Power if the Avenger Shield it procs is used within 6 seconds. Very nice buff that should help offset the nerf to HoPo generation in 4.0.6
  • Divine Storm now generates 1 point of Holy Power if it hits (i.e. successfully lands on) 4 or more targets. N/A for Prot
  • Sacred Shield’s internal cooldown has been increased to 60 seconds, up from 30. N/A for Prot

15. Narrated PVP Videos

Below are my narrated PVP videos, in reverse chronological order (most recent first). Although some of the mechanics in the older videos are outdated, there are points I make in each video which are timeless.

2011 Jan 31 (Cataclysm, Patch 4.0.3a): 3v3 Arena Volume 2

2011 Jan 28 (Cataclysm, Patch 4.0.3a): 3v3 Arena Volume 1

2011 Jan 19 (Cataclysm, Patch 4.0.3a): 2v2 Arena Volume 4

2011 Jan 11 (Cataclysm, Patch 4.0.3a): Victory by Landslide

2011 Jan 08 (Cataclysm, Patch 4.0.3a): 2v2 Arena Volume 3

2011 Jan 05 (Cataclysm, Patch 4.0.3a): 2v2 Arena Volume 2

2010 Dec 31 (Cataclysm, Patch 4.0.3a)

2010 Dec 22 (Cataclysm, Patch 4.0.3a): 2v2 Arena Volume 1

2010 Nov 27 (WotLK, Patch 4.0.3a)

2010 Oct 24 (WotLK, Patch 4.0.1)

2010 Oct 21 (WotLK, Patch 4.0.1)

2010 Oct 16 (WotLK, Patch 4.0.1)

2010 Oct 14 (WotLK, Patch 4.0.1):

16. About the Author

Added this section due to this (predictable) post on the WoW forums, prior to the launch of Cataclysm:

It doesn’t look like you have that good pvp gear and experience, i wonder what prompted you to make this post ?

My Paladin hit level 80 over the summer of 2010. I didn’t get to 5k PVP GearScore until 2 months before Patch 4.0, so I had very little time to Arena before 4.0 launched.

I earned the 2k rating Achievement in 2v2 and 3v3 in Cataclysm as Prot and was the highest-rated Prot Pally in the Shadowburn battlegroup in 2v2 and 3v3. You can see my Arena teams here:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/wildhammer/taugrimm/pvp

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Posted in Guide, Paladin, PVP, Video, World of Warcraft
1,017 comments on “Guide to Cataclysm Protection Paladin PVP (Videos)
  1. Anthoneo says:

    Hi Guys.
    I have been especially vocal about the WoG nerf on the forums (waste of time of course).
    For what it`s worth, i`ve been doing ok in BGs the last few days being top of damage and kills a few times even in Alterac (although there being one massive melee fire fight going for nearly 10 mins with me right in the middle helped lol), and still staying within the top 5 in kills and damage everytime. Although maybe I have been `lucky` and just struck a lot of new 85`s. BUT I find I have to be super anal about tactics and really have to stay right out of open spaces as the super OP Hunters and Mages just keep kiting and hitting me and I can`t do shit against that especially as they can shoot thru walls and rocks lol (why can`t we?..).

    Funnily Warriors and Rogues are still the only ones who will go toe to toe though, everyone else runs away.

    I have found that healing potions help a to cover the WoG nerf a little if used prudently(very much a case of better than nothing)as well as flipping over to SoI when it`s `safe` to to help with mana and health regen., this has especially helped. Also being a lot more efficient with my use of LoH. I have been doing a LOT of training in PvE against bosses and not using WoG at all which has also helped me too.

    But I fully realise these are bandaids and would not be as useful if at all in Arena. But I don`t want to give up on Prot as I love the concept and will unfortunately have to wait until Blizzard wakes up to themselves (I realise a long wait).
    The worst result of this WoG nerf is that that STUPID *@#%&? Forebearance raises it`s ugly head a lot more. Getting rid of THAT would make a massive difference.

  2. hey man! great site. and amazing info.

    check out my prot pvp paly, i love it. i’ve levelled as prot till 79, switched to holy for pvp, then back to prot for cata and it’s better and stronger than ever. me and my friend -arms warr. have gotten up to 1200 rating so far. It’s great. What would you recommend for going up against a mage/rogue team? We can usually beat them, but it’s just annoying getting slowed and frozen by the mage and slowed by the rogue, after all my cd’s pop i can’t move sometimes and become a sittign target. I can usually surivive enough to hit a wog and then hit my hot, but it’s a close call most times.

    great site, keep it up!
    take care.

  3. Omegathanos says:

    hey tau, loved the guide, i was wondering, since im a tailor and can put swordguard on my cloak, should i still roll with landslide on my mace? the extra 1k attack power is badass, but the 600 dodge proc and 15% speed boost is just awesome.

  4. Morgan says:

    Well rets are getting their WoG back as Selfless healer now makes WoG only have a 5-10 second cooldown. Blizzard missing the point utterly again.. why they dont just remove the cooldown from WoG and just sort Selfless Healer out as this was the cause of the problems is beyond me.

    Prots are stuck with the 20 second WoG, HoR is down to 10% mana cost, and our block bonus is down to 5% instead of 10% with.. whatever skill it is.. cant remember.

  5. Vertify says:

    I’m currently debating whether to get Cata and start playing WoW again or not. So I’ve been checking out the new specs we have. So far they all seem pretty viable to play. I like Holy, Ret, and Prot. So I’m just trying to find the one that’d be the better choice over the 3 spec’s for battle grounds. do you have any video’s of you against Ret and Holy paladins that are closely geared to your level? also just in your opinion, how do you do vs Ret and Holy paladins? Lastly what do you think of Ret and Holy pally’s?

    • Jordan says:

      Hey man. I got back into cata and it’s awesome. I have a full bloodthirsty geared prot paly, and it is great. I can usually get enough burst to take down a healer- holy paly/priest and restos and ret. I have a macro set for trinks and avenging wrath ans 70% reduced damage. It’s insane. Prot is amazing.

      • Vertify says:

        well after reading this guide and all the comments. watching more vids on YouTube, it sounds like prot is the way to go. im trying to find a good server and battle group also. where can i get updated stats about the battle groups and realm population and A/H ratio?

        • Deathsoul says:

          Well if u have no prefference for any spec i would chose holy pally as they wasnt affected by the WoG nerf and prot pallys arent what they used to be in terms of survability. I recomend u trying them all and see what fits u bether :)

  6. Vertify says:

    trying all them out is gona take a long time and money for gearing. specing. etc. ive played some of each. i like em all. but i think im gona do prot and holy. that way i have survivability and damage. and when i feel like sitting back and relaxing i got holy. with some spike damage. again i still need a place where i can get info so i can choose a good server and battle group. i am horde fyi.

  7. Vortimosa says:

    No offence intended, but people should understand that as of 4.1 the viability of Protection in PVP was practically nullified.

    We’re no longer able to live against casters or any physical DPS that has half a brain. PVP Prot was all about preservation and forcing the enemy team to either OOM or run out of cooldowns. We can’t do that anymore and I gave up before the WoG nerf even hit. The fact that people are still talking about Prot PVP post 4.1 kinda annoys me, it was a viable spec pre 4.1 but it no longer has any real viability since self preservation is out of the picture.

    If you find it amusing to annoy people in BG’s or in Arena then by all means spec Prot PVP and go nuts, you can have some pretty fun times if you know what you’re doing. Just don’t expect to hit high ratings anymore, or be able to take any class 1v1. A Prot Paladin in 2′s over 2000 these days is a total rarity.

    Before you post any response, understand this. I took a 2′s team to 2292 as Prot PVP with a Blood DK. The DK transferred but we are rather sure we could have kept going higher if we had bothered to continue playing. I still keep in contact with the DK, he’s playing Frost and recently hit 2200 in 3′s. I’m playing Ret now, but I’m not so crash at it and I can’t really get a stable 3′s team anyway.

    • Vertify says:

      Vortimosa. i now realize prot is bad. ok. but then what is good on a pally? ret? if we cnt survive with prot how are we even gona get a shot off with it? and healing? arnt we like the worst healers in the game. well outa the onces that can heal others.

    • taugrim says:

      Vortimosa is right.

      When I heard about the introduction of the 20-sec cooldown for WoG, I knew it meant the end of Prot in competitive arena (e.g. 2k+). In arena, WoG was a hugely critical tool for Prot as we often had to use WoG to heal our partner(s).

      It was uncommon pre-4.1 to find a Prot above 2k in 2v2 or 3v3. AFAIK, I was the only player to crack 2k as Prot in Cataclysm in my battlegroup (Shadowburn) in either the 2v2 or 3v3 bracket (and I’m talking after the stupid rating bug was fixed in December).

      I couldn’t imagine getting to 2k in any comp now in 2v2 or 3v3, as there is no sustainable way that the Prot can protect their partner(s).

  8. Jordan Urbani says:

    What is the point of doing 2′s when you get matched against two frost mages? I have a CD on my hand of freedom, I have a CD on my trink, and i have a CD on my freedom racial (human). That’s 3. Whats the point after that then i get frozen again and again. My aveng. shield is good, and rebuke is good, but whats the point after all that, i cant make my aveng come up untill CS crits and thats if im near enough to hit them. It was a pointless fight. My friend is an arms warr. and we were both just running around getting frozen and poly’d. we couldnt hide. it’s a stupid fight. we each did a pathetic 18k damage.

    I also went toe to toe with a dk, i couldnt see which spec, but it was me and him left. I had full health – 133k and he had 80k, down from 140k. As we went on, his health went up, mine went down. I had him to 30k when I died. How did he heal so much? I felt completely useless against him. My stun, even though specced into, wasn’t enough. This is insane.

    needless to say…im depressed….lol

  9. Anthoneo says:

    Well, I still haven`t done Arena yet.
    But in BG`s I have no problems generally and am now pretty much always top or close to top damage, and pretty well always in the top 3 for killing blows and or honor kills. Tol Barad is a push over, and the only toons that can beat me one on one are casters/Hunters that hit me when i`m otherwise occupied and stay at a distance that I can`t make up.
    I have been running Ret too but I can`t get the same results as with Prot with equivalent spec weapon etc. I have noticed that most Prot definitely seem to be Horde, but i`m Human and being able to use 2 Strength PvP Tokens is a big help.

    I have also noticed that we can now shake off disarm (I don`t have Titanium plating on my shield yet as i`m saving it for when I get the Vicious shield, but might not bother now..)

    In any case, i`m not giving up.

    • Mavros says:

      Well, a little light on this Prot Pala cave we are in is always welcome. I have invested enough time on my toon that I really wouldn´t like to abandon him to his luck.
      Anthoneo, could you please comment a little more on your post patch strategy?
      Thanks for the hope.
      Mavros

      • Anthoneo says:

        Thanks Mavros :-) I`m not sure what I can add to what I have said in my previous couple of posts,if you have a specific question it might be easier.

        While I don`t claim to be an expert, I am continuously looking at ways to make Prot work as well as it can with the nerfs and do enough PvP to be able to see that I haven`t just had a few lucky days. I even finished Alterac Valley with top killing blows on 2 occasions, so I guess I must be doing something right…

        I will say that I would love to see how Taugrimm would go if he finished speccing his gear up though. His main grief seems with the lesser ability to heal a partner, but if it were 3`s and there was a good Priest for example, I would think it might be a different story? Again I have NOT been in Arena and appreciate that it IS different, but everywhere else, and I do PvP everyday, I rarely have trouble with anyone 1 on 1 even Frost Mages AS LONG AS I can keep them in range lol. If they can keep distance it is pretty hard.
        And I am puzzled at everyone`s fear of DKs.

        One thing I can suggest for regular BG`s and Tol Barad etc., other than the Strength Flask, is the Lesser Invisibility Potion (very handy for sneaking up on casters and Hunters). Also some of the combination Health / Mana potions.

        One other thing that may or may not have something to do with it, I don`t use any macros at all. They just don`t work with this spec. slowing everything down. To me proof of that (besides the visible difference)is in the fact that I am rarely not in the top 3 for damage anywhere. While the individual crits aren`t as high as `DPS` classes, the pace we can put them out seems to give a higher average. This combined with the right tactics seems to make the difference for me at least… have a look at my gear, it`s nothing special. And i`m relatively a noob, but I learn fast.

        The only thing I totally suck at is hanging onto Flags lol…

        • Mavros says:

          Thanks for the answer, I have not PvPd lately because we were finishing our WoLK professions and instances before jumping to Cata, and for some reason (maybe at 80 if you don´t hava Cata you can´t queue for BGs) we couldn´t get into BGs.
          I am not too good at PvP, but I really believe that it takes your game to a whole new level and love the adrenaline, so I am exited to know that Prot Palys can still compete.

  10. Jordan Urbani says:

    I’ve just been doing a few Battlegrounds, started with Arathi, then Warsong, then Tol Barad.
    Prot is still a great and viable spec. We just have to really figure out what we’re doing for Arenas, esp. 2v2, full dps. But that aside, we won Arathi. I was in the top 3 for damage, and capped 4 flags. I had a holy paly healing me as I took down a mage, rogue, and hunter, one after the other, not 3v1. That was the highlight battle. I was also in the top 5 for heals…hahaha. In the warsong BG, I ran the flag twice, and we capped and won. I had 1 healer on me as 5 horde (a dk) pulled me down to th etunnel to try and kill me. I killed a rogue, and managed to run up and cap the flag.

    In tol barad I just finished, I took on two ret paladins. Started fighting one, and a second came along. Both had 117k and 120k health respectively. Both were wearing full pvp gear w/ vicious weap. (I’m pretty sure, all the signs for pvp gear were there). I had both paladins at 30k health, when one did Hand of Protection and healed himself up to 50k. The other paladin and I kept going toe to toe, and I mangaed to kill him. The other paladin had me down to 30k, and I had just popped ardent defender, when he managed to kill me. I had him down to 20k health. It was a great fight.

    My main macro for burst is as follows:
    /cast Guardian of Ancient Kings
    /cast Divine Protection
    /cast Avenging Wrath
    /cast Bloodthirsty Gladiator’s Badge of Victory
    /cast Inquisition
    /stop cast

    I usually run out, hit with crusader and judgement (i have number 1 bound for both) and get either 1 or 2 hopo for inquisition. Increasing my damage by 50%, str. by 1520, and damage reduction by 70%. It’s quite the macro. Usually I can take most people im fighting from their max health to almost 20% in a matter of seconds with this macro.

    Anyways, don’t give up on prot even though the wog nerf has screwed us over. Just keep fighting.

  11. Anthoneo says:

    Just did a couple of hours of BGs after a week off levelling up my DK Mining bitch.

    The worst I finished was 5th in killing blows, and got second killing blows and top damage twice. Several times I easily cleaned up Blood Elf and Tauren Ret Pallies in Vicious gear (I only have Bloodthirsty still), in some instances at the same time, so there`s hope for us yet it seems.

    And we definitely seem to have gotten a secret buff against Disarm it seems as it is instantly shaken off now.

    Like Jordan said, just keep fighting!

  12. Marko says:

    Random BG’s are fun. But you likely won’t get an invite to RBG. Proc and Ret atm are not viable. No invites. They barely bring enough damage but lack CC that other damage classes bring. This is not a put down but reality. Blizz wants paladins as holy only.

    • Anthoneo says:

      I do actually get invites to RBGs often but because i`m in a very different timezone it`s hard. I do plan to do one tomorrow so we`ll see how it goes… CC is easy with Prot though, that is how I get many of the invites to RBGs actually, you can easily tie up half a dozen opposition players and keep them busy while others take flags etc. It comes down to method rather than relying on spells and macros etc.
      But I agree what you say about Blizz.

      • Kraetos says:

        Sorry, but how do you tie up 6 opposition with only one stun (hammer of justice) and with the only slow debuff limiting maximal run speed to normal pace?

        Do you mean that prot pallies survivability and damage mitigation means the opposition is spending more time plowing damage in to you as opposed to going for FC?

        Im not criticizing, just hoping to get some pvp tips from someone whose played longer :)

        • Anthoneo says:

          “Do you mean that prot pallies survivability and damage mitigation means the opposition is spending more time plowing damage in to you as opposed to going for FC?”

          Exactly this. I basically run around them changing target every several seconds to draw their attention back to me if they are focusing on the FC. It often amazes me how long I can survive doing this lol. I generally only die once in BG`s these days, 3 times on a bad day.

          So lately instead of just going for kills i`ve been doing this in BGs and it`s a new kind of fun and helps the team better, and sometimes helps me top honor kills and damage too.

          If I try and do the same thing in Ret spec though I die pretty quickly lol.

  13. Anthoneo says:

    Ok, the BG didn`t happen but a Ret Pally was kind enough to offer to do some Arena with me so I could lose my Arena cherry.
    We won 5 out of 7 matches and in 2 cases I was against the 2 from the other teams by myself and won. He said my rating was up to 1550, I didn`t see that though. Anyway I had capped my Conquest points already so that was that with the Ret. Had another go today with a Mage and we had 20 matches winning half.

    So let`s see how it goes once I have better gear.

  14. kenny says:

    okay now that taurens can be pally’s would it be better to use a def tauren pally in arena’s because of the health buff, or does it really matter…ive been thinking about switching my belf to a tauren for a while, just need to make sure its worth my time :)

  15. Anthoneo says:

    Sincere apologies for the rant, but I want to make a couple of points.

    I did 8 hours straight of rated and normal BGs with my guild today.
    Only finished not in the top 3 for killing blows 4 times, and was top damage several times. Killed more Ret Pallies than I could count (in one BG alone I killed the same one 5 times), then some idiot Dwarf Ret tries to tell me `you don`t understand Paladin mechanics` lol. He finished with one kill in that one and I had 12…idiot. I think the last time a Ret killed me one on one Jesus was wearing sandals.

    I`m NOT trying to brag or anything, far from it. I am still learning. But I still only have Bloodthirsty gear other than the shield yet am doing well in PvP. Now I look at the current Arena ratings for 2v2 in Cyclone and see 2 Prot Pallies in the top 40 and only one Ret and two Holys. And I also see teams that I was up against in Arena several times all there including the number 1 ranked team (God knows how we got put in with them).

    SO my point it, Prot is NOT at all dead from what I can see if I can get consistent results like the above. Prot is a lot of work to make work, but it can.
    I`m really getting SICK of people saying how much `better` Ret is, it isn`t at all. I now tend to single out Ret Paladins as easy kills.

    Don`t give up guys. Prot rules.

    • taugrim says:

      Anthoneo :

      Now I look at the current Arena ratings for 2v2 in Cyclone and see 2 Prot Pallies in the top 40 and only one Ret and two Holys.

      Did you check the specs of those players to make sure that they were truly Prot PVP Pallies? Armory lists the specs of the players based on when Armory last compiled the rankings. In many cases, those Pallies showing up as Prot are using Prot for PVE not PVP. So they are probably using Holy or Ret for PVP.

      Anyway, let me know.

      • Marko says:

        Most of friends who play protection in PVP are PVE geared in rated BG’s. And he usually has two or more healers with him.

      • Anthoneo says:

        Hi Taugrim.
        I went back a few times to recheck and they were Prot everytime I looked except the last when one of them was in Holy spec. Going through the top 100 there are a couple more Prot though. In all honesty I just think there aren`t enough people giving it a SERIOUS go with Prot.

  16. Kage says:

    Hello all, new to the forum, just thought I would pose a question, just really got into pvp (BGs) have been doing it on a warrior and a paladin. both have good resilience and it is night and day between the two. As a ret Paladin I continually get my ass handed to me, whether it is fear spam, mages and their infinite freezes that last 10 seconds or any number of other kiting classes. Is there something I am missing or is ret the red headed step child right now? I do the normal stuff keep inquistion up, judge, avenging wrath etc etc… have the trinket but as far as just being fodder for ranged classes is that just what paladins are nowadays?

  17. Marko says:

    Ret is dead at the moment for PVP. It is a dps spec that really can’t dps. You get kited all over, frozen, blinded, etc and you can’t get out. Roll something else or quit until they fix it but I don’t think they will ever fix it. It has been 8 months and really no relief. Even the most current changes in 4.2 are no help. I have been playing on the PTR. It is really frustrating. In BG’s I never see RET. The top 10 are all Mages, followed by Rogues, and DK’s.

  18. Bob says:

    Hey i could use some help on getting my prot pally better in pvp because i am getting hammered .

    • Anthoneo says:

      @Bob, you haven`t given us much to go on mate… get your Pally set up as per this guide then we can take it from there. You shouldn`t be getting hammered at all, you should be doing the hammering.

    • Jordan says:

      First, it really depends on your gear and your experience with prot itself. It’s a good spec to play, you should be able to at least hold your own.

      Secondly, are you talking more BG’s or Arena? If it’s bg’s, you probably need better gear, and don’t go out alone if you are inexperienced. Same with Arenas, if you’re not experienced, you’ll learn fast. Otherwise, it comes down to gear, and your parter(s) gear and experience as well.

      Third, setting up your keybindings, number bars, and macros will help immensely. Set yourself a burst damage macro. Set your keybindings for quick heals, and attacks all within range. Keep your stuns and kicks up.

      Fourth, read this blog. Follow it. You’ll be fine. Practice makes perfect.

      good luck!

      ps. if u want to, check out my character, Polifema @Gorgonnash.

      Cya

  19. bloodniron says:

    Jordan :…read this blog. Follow it. You’ll be fine. Practice makes perfect…

    Funny how several people keep saying “read this blog”, “follow it”, etc… And the guy who wrote the damn thing (Taugrimm) swears up and down that Prot is dead, and he himself left WoW behind for RIFT…

    • Jordan says:

      Ya, but obviously these people are all playing the game, and they have chosen to be this spec. If they hate it, it’s quite easy to change it.

      • bloodniron says:

        I’m playing also, howbeit more limited due to a growing relationship. Getting back into playing though, and Prot is my Main. Bloodniron (Gnomeregan/Alliance). I’ve joined Arena Pass as well, and its Bloodniron (Arena Tournament 1/Alliance). I have not joined a team yet. Was hoping a RL friend would/will join me. I dual-spec Prot/Prot (MS-PvP/OS-Tanking), and still do nicely in BGz. Have not done any Arena since Patch, so…

        Have fun out there, and let’s show that Prot is indeed viable!

  20. Anthoneo says:

    The Blog is good, the spec information is solid. The fact the Taugrim walked away is his personal choice and irrelevant. If he came back, finished gearing up and had a proper go at it he would do better. I hope he does :-)

    And I really don`t care of others say Prot is dead, I love the spec. I have ranted enough above about how well I am doing despite still learing and don`t need to go on about it. I really think many Paladins don`t do well because of laziness. It is a spec that really needs you to use your head with tactics, whereas most other specs they just sit there hitting their Macros. I don`t use one single macro.

    I have finally found a decent 2`s partner and we are currently at over 65% win rate (and still learning to work together) and I still have mainly Bloodthirsty gear so I can only see a lot more improvement coming. I have been doing some PvP with my Blood DK alt and compared to my Pally it`s a joke lol.

    I think we should all take advantage of this Forum to help and encourage each other , and show others that Paladins, esp Prot, can pwn, as well as being great fun. That has been my motivation for posting so much ;-)

    Anthoneo@Daggerspine.

  21. bloodniron says:

    Anthoneo :The Blog is good, the spec information is solid. The fact the Taugrim walked away is his personal choice and irrelevant. If he came back, finished gearing up and had a proper go at it he would do better. I hope he does

    I agree with you. But I think it comes down to how people approach games. I just want to have fun with it. That said, its hard to have fun when you are getting beat down all the time. I still have not got into any Arena, but have done well with BG’s.

    Anthoneo :And I really don`t care of others say Prot is dead, I love the spec.

    I love the spec as well, and in fact, I really can’t seem to wrap my mind around anything else, or any other class even. I’ve tried several and they just do not hold my interest. I am a Prot Paladin, for better or for worse, lol.

    Anthoneo :I don`t use one single macro.

    Why not? I don’t consider a macro as cheating. A well designed macro can save your ass and that of your teammates as well. I don’t use macros on my attacks, but I use one for that “Oh Sh*t” moment that happens once in awhile.

    It goes something like this:

    /cast Guardian of Ancient Kings
    /cast Ardent Defender
    /cast Divine Protection
    /cast Divine Guardian
    /cast Avenging Wrath

    Anthoneo :I have finally found a decent 2`s partner and we are currently at over 65% win rate…

    GratZ… What’s the class/spec of your partner?

    Anthoneo :I think we should all take advantage of this Forum to help and encourage each other , and show others that Paladins, esp Prot, can pwn, as well as being great fun. That has been my motivation for posting so much
    Anthoneo@Daggerspine.

    Again I agree, and thank you and others like you for continuing to fly the Prot flag high. I must say that when Taugrim bailed, I felt disheartened (as I’m sure many of us did) because I truly respect him. His notes on how bad things were going to get, combined with a wee bit o’ my own troubles (getting thru a divorce and what-not) made me pretty well leave the game behind for awhile.

    But now I’m back, with a Vengeance, lol…

    Bloodniron@Gnomeregan/Arena Tournament 1

    • Anthoneo says:

      Hey Blood, good to see you back mate. Yeah divorce can be a distraction..
      And I too was disappointed when Taugrim stopped playing.

      I hear what you say about people being frustrated about being beat down, but I think it`s maybe the players as much as or more than the spec. I can only talk from my own experience…
      That 8 hour BG session with my guild I mentioned, it was my first time doing anything like that with the guild, all very experienced guys with various toons.
      At the start they were like `Prot Pally` lol, um, you stay and guard the bases` . After one game I had enough of that crap, and got stuck into it from the next one and they all went quiet coz I was consistently in the top 3 pretty much every time. There was a very experienced Ret and Holy in there and only the Ret was near me for results (both these guys had played Prot in the past). At the end of the session it was only me and the Guild boss still going and he asked if i wanted to do Arena with him lol.

      Regarding macros, I realise I am firmly against the grain with that. My reason is not because of any worry about `cheating`, I have tried macros and for me they didn`t work well at all. The short story is that for me they slowed everything down, interrupts screwed with them, they took away flexibility, and I went OOM much more often.
      I find using a multi button mouse for all the bread and butter attacks, the keyboard for all the HP and trinket ones, then practicing A LOT to learn them all by touch, gives me the reaction speed and flexibility I need to make Prot work well.
      I will say that this method is not proving as successful with my DK , but with Prots small amount of total spells and attacks, it is the better way for me anyway.
      It might pay to add that due to certain RL experience for many years I am used to thinking ahead and in complex combinations, so that`s another reason I don`t like going automated, it isn`t `alive`. But I feel that anyone can do this with enough practice and the right mouse.

      My current partner (I hope he stays) is a Gnome Demonology Warlock.

      :-)

  22. Marko says:

    Arena changes as you move higher. It is quick to get to 1550, after that it becomes a struggle. Prot pallys do okay in bg’s but in rbg’s the dk or warrior gets the role to be the FC. The dk for example brings CC that prot does not have. Twos are only for points. You have to be on a 3v3 team or higher to get rated weapon. At the moment the only PVP role for paladins in holy. Many prot pallys are in PVE gear in rbg’s with 2 or more healers helping him. Blizz does nor care and ret and prot are both dead. The new fixes in 4.2 do little to change things. I have been playing on the PTR. It really is sad.

    • Anthoneo says:

      That`s what I thought, but on my very first day we went against the number 1 ranked team 3 times even though we were ranked at 1550 (they are 2718) so it appears to be random ?… We lost all 3, but weren`t owned and the last match went for probably 10 minutes (that was with a Ret Pally partner).
      They are an Arms Warrior and a Resto Shaman. I hope I get a chance to go against them with my new partner and better gear.

      Unfortunately in the search for a good partner I went through some shockers and my ranking dropped to 1349, but things will be different now. I have tried a Ret Pally, a Frost Mage, a Rogue, Shaman, and now the Warlock with interestingly the Ret and Warlock by far the best.

      Either way time will prove me right or wrong, and based on experience thus far I remain positive.

      I know what you`re saying about flag carrying though, that`s a mission with Prot and one thing I suck at.

  23. Kraetos says:

    Hopefully someone can help me out with my question, cuz i am at a complete loss for words haha…..so i stuck with prot and im loving it, currently 83 specd the same as Taugrim

    My last bg in the 80-84 bracket i went 29 and 7 with 104 HKs. I was 3rd in damage dealt overall, 2nd on my team and had 1 flag return. We won WG 3-0 yet i only received 78 honor points. The only person on my team who got lower had just joined the match was 0-0 with 10k damage no caps, no returns 15 HK and he got 60 honor points.

    This wasnt just a one time occurrence either. Ever since 81 I usually have been at the tops of damage dealt, HKs and KBs (not all the time, but most times), yet consistently one of the lowest (if not last) when it comes to total honor received. (and when i say consistently I literally mean EVERY TIME without fail).

    So my question is, what am i doing wrong and how can I fix it? I should be hitting in the high hundreds for Honor on BG wins, yet i havent hit triple digits since the 75-79 bracket.

    Hopefully someones expertise can help me out, cuz 85 is coming quick! Thanks for the help!

    • Vitalogy says:

      I bet its not your doing its what your wearing. I bet most other players just have on more Heirloom and Guild Achievement gear then you do. Or their guild is a higher rank.
      I’m in a max level gear and my alts are always geared out to the teeth in any gear I can pass down., most of which have Xp and Honor boost. Plus i have several guild perks that net me more honor and xp and I toss out my banners too on long flag defense fights, like when holding down the Stables or Farm.

      Other then that, just toss that shield around, use your buffs always and fight on the flag where you get 50% bonus. The more players and enemeys you touch the more Honor Kills you get and the more honor you get.

  24. Vitalogy says:

    Typo: I meant to say “Max level Guild” not gear.

  25. bloodniron says:

    Anthoneo :
    …it was my first time doing anything like that with the guild, all very experienced guys with various toons. At the start they were like `Prot Pally` lol, um, you stay and guard the bases.` …At the end of the session it was only me and the Guild boss still going and he asked if i wanted to do Arena with him lol.

    That’s the way to represent! Not that there’s anything wrong with staying and guarding the bases. In fact, that’s kinda what its about! But I’m with you in liking to get into the melee a bit.

    Anthoneo :
    My current partner (I hope he stays) is a Gnome Demonology Warlock.

    Except for the fact he’s Worgen, that’s the same as my latest Alt I’m gonna try. A Demonology ‘Lock named Demoniron. He’s still sitting at 17, but I need to play him some more. I made a fully-decked level 85 version of him on one of the Arena Pass servers, but I don’t know how to play a high level ‘Lock, so… I need to get some ideas from a website or two in that regard.

    Good luck to you, and to all!

  26. Kage says:

    So I switched up from ret to a prot/pvp set up…. and wow talk about a major difference. Just a question should I be mixing in any pve tank/ret gear or just stick with as much pvp oriented gear as I can find? only 2500 resil atm but man what a difference from ret.

    • taugrim says:

      Kage :

      Just a question should I be mixing in any pve tank/ret gear or just stick with as much pvp oriented gear as I can find? only 2500 resil atm but man what a difference from ret.

      Stick with PVP gear. Resilience is king, and PVE gear has a lot of stats for mitigation/avoidance that are not important for PVP.

  27. Marko says:

    Resilience has diminishing returns at 3000. So how much damage should you give up for how much resilience?

    There is no doubt that you survive as prot but damage is not great and you bring no CC to the game. So who would want you other than being a FC in RBG’s which btw, dk’s and warriors are more desirable??

  28. Dave Jacobs says:

    Do the 4.2 changes make a protpala playable again in 4.2? Arenawise + rbg.

    • Cylarus says:

      The 4.2 changes aren’t going to do much to impact Prot PvP one way or the other. There are significant improvements to Ret via the Selfless Healer changes reducing the CD on WoG, and Holy is getting some mobility buffs, as well as a WoG boost, and dispell protection on Beacon of Light (though this could be viewed as a nerf for those that were using beacon to help protect other things from dispells)

      The only real “buffs” prot will see are in the form of nerfs to other classes, but that’s not going to help being back those that abandoned prot after 4.1.

  29. Dave Jacobs says:

    Anybody still uses this in arena/(r)bg? I can’t let go of it :)

    I’ve found this saying: “Due to the WoG-nerf, I’ve been able to merge my prot-pvp and prot-pve specs by dumping Eternal Glory and Guarded by the Light.”
    Made his spec looking like http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/saurfang/Knaughty/talent/primary
    Do you think this is valid?

    Also, what would you guys do different in spec & gear between arena and flagcarrier?
    I’m thinking stamina gems, enchants, mending enchant as flag carrier maybe?

    • Anthoneo says:

      Every day and loving it.
      Unfortunately after finding a good 2`s partner that gave me over 65% win rate, he`s been awol for 2 weeks so i`ve been asking anyone to partner and have gone through a few `duds` dropping my rating lol. But in BG`s and RBG`s it`s pwnage on parade lol.

  30. Dave Jacobs says:

    4.2 > “Seal of Righteousness now can be activated by any melee ability, not just single target melee abilities. This adds Hammer of the Righteous (the physical component) and Divine Storm to the list of abilities that can activate this seal. In addition, Seal of Righteousness procs can now be critical effects.”

    Think this would change our choice of Seal of Truth?

  31. Dave Jacobs says:

    I keep spamming the forum but can’t help it :) Truly hope some others are still in love with Protadins. I know other classes probably would be a better choice, but for me fun is the most important factor. I need something that’s a bit forgiven and last long while doing decent damage.

    Can we talk more about the changes 4.2 cold mean for us, prots in PVP?

    - Choice of Seal, with the Righteousness buff?
    - Change in spec (maybe dumping Eternal Glory + Guardd by the light)?
    - Str + Crit still our choices?
    - Should we try stacking expertise (till cap) or mastery ?
    - Best weapon enchant stays Landslide?
    - Difference in spec, gems, enchants, … for being FC in RBG?
    - Favourite heal (Devine Light) remains with new manacosts?

  32. Dave Jacobs says:

    I also found a new guide on our spec. Dhyana’s Protadin PvP Pally Guide.
    Don’t know this guys and his pvp results aren’t that promising but this got my attention:

    “Heres a fun one I call the Falcon Punch. The idea is to use your strongest ability to it’s fullest. Start out by getting 3 charges of Holy Power with Crusader strike, make a macro that uses Avenging Wrath, Inquisition, and your Bloodthirsty Bade of Victory to work all at once, and keep your Divine Plea (which restores 3 charges of Holy Power) close. Use your judgement to proc Sacred Duty, which makes Shield of the Righteous a 100% garunteed crit, when your sacred duty has proc’d, immediately Stun your target with Hammer of Justice, activate your Inquisition, Avenging Wrath, and Trinket macro to activate all 3 at once, use divine plea, and then use Shield of the Righteous. This super combo usually leads to 20k crit’s on plate types, and 30k on cloth types. Immediately use Avengers Shield when all of this is still in play, to make it also do 20-30k crit on your target. This makes a 40-60k in around 3 seconds possible. Crusader Strike, if it crits, can also do 15, making, in the right circumstances, a 60k+ easily attainable, if everything crits, in a very short amount of time.”

    60k damage in 3 secs, gonna try it tonight :)

  33. Dave Jacobs says:

    As Human (no need of medallion), is Darkmoon Hurricane a real option for us? It’s nature damage is getting buffed in 4.2 aswell…
    Is it worth the loss of resilience for the extra damage?

    • Anthoneo says:

      No, use both strength trinkets.

      • Dave Jacobs says:

        Hurricane has +321 str and a chance for 5k-8k chance to hit in 4.2. So, all are strenght. I’d just be bout losing around 350 resi vs gaining quite a bit damage

      • bloodniron says:

        Think about it… the Math can decide it for you (I would think…)

        My Darkmoon Hurricane card gives me +321 Strength 100% of the time. I use the Insignia of Victory trink also…

        On the other hand, if I swap the DM:H trink out for my Badge of Victory trink, I will get +1520 Str for 20 seconds, after which I will have to wait 100 seconds before I can ‘Use’ it again. And ya have to remember to ‘Use’ it…

        There could be a point saying ya use it for extra burst once every two minutes, for the kill shot or some shit, but then it will be like every other CD… never around when ya need it…

        • bloodniron says:

          So I meant to conclude by saying that I personally think that the DM:H trink wins out. It gets +7000 damage proc decently often, plus +321 Strength.

          When ya divide the Badge of Victory’s +1520 Str by 6 [2 minutes (120 seconds) divided by 20 seconds = 6], ya get an average of +253 Strength

  34. Dave Jacobs says:

    More thoughts:
    - Guarded By The Light no longer interacts with Holy Shield in any way. (4.2)
    Would it be valid to drop this for ‘Long Arm of the Law’ which seems to stack with Pursuit of Justice?

    - I also see several pvpprots taking glyph of seal of truth for expertise. It gives this extra in 4.2: “Glyph of Seal of Truth expertise bonus now also works when Seal of Righteousness is active.” Think this could be something?

    • Anthoneo says:

      I think leave GBTL at 2 points because even an extra 5% on WOG can help, and at least it`s a given buff. But if you have a way to test it by all means and let us know. LAOTL would certainly be handy for Prot.

      Glyph SoT for Prot PvP in my opinion yes.

      • bloodniron says:

        So far, I’ve always and everywhere read that Expertise means pretty much nothing for us in PvP… But I’m hip to learning something new. Can you show that Expertise is now an important PvP Prot stat?

        • Dave Jacobs says:

          What i’ve read is that expertise isn’t needed if you stand behind your opponent all the time. This isn’t so in pvp, so that’s why it’s good to keep it at 20 (cap) for pvp.
          As a human female with a mace + the SoT glyph, i get 13 expertise for free. So i only need 7 to be capped = 211 rating.

          • bloodniron says:

            I hear ya, that makes sense. We’re Paladin for a reason, right? I want to be in someone’s face giving them shit, not sneaking around trying to stab (hack, slash) them in the back, lol… And it looks like I’m at 10 points Exp. without the glyph so 20 with… I just don’t know about glyphing that…

            HASTE: What about Haste? I messed around with gear in the Arena Pass and created a set of gear and spec that had a buttload of Haste, and I would think that it would, in theory, mean more damage because extra ability or two every minute… Thoughts, anyone?

  35. Anthoneo says:

    Grats to Glince @ Crushridge for the 2298 Arena rating for 2`s. I`m coming!

    Up yours to anyone who says Prot can`t pwn.

    • Dave Jacobs says:

      Are you sure he played?
      I see 2298 team-rating, but 1000 personal and 0 played this season.

      Would love to see his pvpgear and yours, Anthoneo. What’s your armory info?

      • Anthoneo says:

        That just means he hasn`t played this week, it`s been reset. Mine is Anthoneo @ daggerspine. See my post above explaining my rating atm. I am confident I can break 2000 with my current spec going by comparisons with players in my guild and my results in Arena. The other day I took down a Belf Ret Pally and an undead Rogue by myself.

        • Dave Jacobs says:

          Looks like you’re the guy i should talk too :)
          You’re rating says 1210, you dropped that much without the warlock? What rating did you get this season? I have played my mage but felt heartache for my protpala :)

          • Anthoneo says:

            I have only been doing Arena for about a month now. I was just short of 1550 after only 2 weeks of Arena. A few losing streaks with partners that died in the first 2 mins fixed that lol.

            The irony is that my `good` partner has been away levelling his new toon….. a Prot Paladin…

            • Dave Jacobs says:

              I know how it feels like, takes forever finding someone willing to play with us. it’s also a pain to just strand before that 1550 :/
              We should play 3s , with 3 protpalas, saving WOGs for healing the target they decide to Nuke :)

        • Dave Jacobs says:

          Some quick questions bout your gear…
          How come you reforged to haste a bit and use a pve weapon, instead of the vicious one?

          • Dave Jacobs says:

            I’m Phyll @ Auchindoun EU btw…

          • Anthoneo says:

            The reason I use that weapon: other than resil it`s the same basic spec as the Vicious weapon and if I waited until I could get enough Conquest points to get it, it`d be ages.

            The weapon I was using previously was only a little below the Vicious weapons also, so it was much wiser to go this way and use my hard won Conquest points for armour etc.
            Also, Swords look cooler ;-)

            Regarding the reforge, there are a few exceptions to things in this guide ;-) My advice is to reforge your weapon Crit to Haste.

        • Dave Jacobs says:

          Anthoneo, Glince hasn’t played in the +2k team he’s in at all. He has none played this season there and they haven’t reset the season totals yet. Your season total is still there, also with a different weekly to prove it.

          You haven’t done alot of arena yourself so far, and don’t have 1550 in 2s, 3s, …

          I like you and how you like prot in pvp aswell, but i’m dissappointed a bit since i thought i found someone who really speaks from experience…

          • Anthoneo says:

            Um, I have explained my situation and have not said anything that was not true.

            My best personal rating was 1480. No I haven`t done a lot of Arena yet, only just over 100 matches. It`s hard to find people to partner a Prot Paladin these days mate. The current `Team` is new hence the low number.

            But I do BG`s and Rated BG`s everyday. There are also a few very experienced Paladins in my Guild and we compare notes all the time.

            Regarding my opinions on spec etc., they are based on daily PvP experience, and many many hours of testing on Dummies using Add-ons to measure DPS.

            Regarding Glince, he was not ranked that high several weeks ago so if he isn`t playing, I can`t see how he has suddenly climbed up the later to be well inside the top 100. I don`t know him personally but simply saw the ranking that wasn`t there before. Also I was not aware one can gain a rating and be in a Team that one isn`t a member of. I must be missing something. So my bad I guess.

            I have done my best to answer your questions, and am sorry that I have apparently offended.

  36. Anthoneo says:

    Grats to Prot Paladin Glince @ Crushridge for the 2298 Arena rating for 2`s. I`m coming so watch out!

    Up yours to anyone who says Prot can`t pwn :-)

    • bloodniron says:

      Personally, I doubt that this Glince does much PvP at all, or he recently started. He only has 633 HK’s…

      AND what’s more, if you look at the ‘Achievements’ section of his armory, click the PvP section, then look at Arena, you will notice that he does not have ANY Arena achieve’s (not even one win…) and barely any BG’s…

      Probably a great Tank though…

  37. Anthoneo says:

    FWIW I was ranked at 1550 in my first matches as stated here at the time, but I haven`t counted that because it soon dropped. I am not personally worried about the current rating as a personal evaluation ATM as it is hard to always win and get your rating up when your partner of the moment is dead most of the time lol.

    The fact that other Melee class in Vicious gear are no problem in Arena except for maybe Arms Warriors. And Ret Paladins,Rogues and most DKs are easy meat tells me at least that I am doing something right.
    In BG`s it is extremely rare to be killed one on one and hasn`t happened for a while now.

    Taugrim has been kind enough to give us this forum to discuss Prot and compare notes, and I don`t think someone`s opinion is invalid purely based on their current Arena rating.
    I am happy with my results and will continue to fight for Prot.

  38. Dave Jacobs says:

    Anthoneo please don’t get me wrong here. I appreciate your input HUGELY! It’s rare to find a protpala pvp these days, so i guess we’re just diehards :-)
    I didn’t mean to ‘diss’ or point you with the finger and i hope you don’t think i did. I’m not an expert at all, just trying to have fun in pvp and for me that seems to be with prot.

    One thing i was wondering, isn’t it better to stack resilience + Stamina gems, enchants, … and just removing damage things to survivability things for being FC in a RBG?
    FC is about staying alive for as long we can so that could be a thing. Does seem like less fun though but yeah :/

    The only real problem i have in arena 1v1 is a frost mage. I also tend to use my WOG on not ideal times still, so i get in probs when i need it for real and it’s on CD. Wasn’t at start of cata and i guess i’m still used to it.

    Best partner imo in 2s is a high burst damager like arms or frost or ret.

  39. Marko says:

    There are diminishing returns on resilience after 3000. I would begin to add stamina.

    • Anthoneo says:

      Marko, I have seen that many times also but have not been able to find any definitive stats on it that are what I consider reliable….
      I`ve seen the commonly stated `over 3400` has little benefit, but is that only said because that`s basically the limit of the Vicious gear?…. Have you found some actual Blizz stats on it? Or someone who has done some actual testing with proper protocols? I would REALLY like to know….

      WoWWiki has an article on it but it`s vague and only says:

      “The resilience cap is currently 9523. Equipping 9523 resilience will provide 100% damage reduction. Having more than 9523 resilience equipped provides absolutely no benefit. However, equipping this amount of resilience is currently impossible. In Patch 4.1.0, diminishing returns on resilience will provide a real resilience cap.”

      This was obviously written pre 4.1.0 release.
      All the other articles i`ve found are also quite old, and seem to be all theory with people arguing over what is right, and who`s calculation is correct.

      The new season 10 PvP gear is a big jump in spec especially with Resil, so does this mean that Resil doesn`t really have much in the way of diminishing returns, or that Blizz will reset the equation, or that it just means we will have more options when speccing?

      That aside, looking at how hard we are to kill geared/specced for damage, I honestly think that if one were to gem and enchant for stamina instead of crit and strength etc., you would literally be unkillable. I actually saw a Prot Pally with something crazy like 157k health once lol…so it is possible. Also some of the other specs i`ve fought in BGs who couldn`t do anything at all damage wise but were impossible to kill had obviously done that also.
      So your damage would be terrible, therefore it would need to be a clear choice between pure survival, or balance with damage dealing. I can`t see it making a difference with Flag carrying though because we have no effective CC for that purpose. I generally never die while carrying the flag, but they do stop me enough so it`s dropped.

      On this point, I have been thinking of doing this `Survival spec` with my old Bloodthirsty gear just to see what happens, and prolly will just for fun. Might even try it in Arena lol. Will let you know what happens if I do ;-)

  40. Dave Jacobs says:

    Anthoneo, nice post. Really need to give me your details so we can talk alot more :)
    I played RBG yesterday, tryong to be FC but they woudn’t let me cause atm i only have 3.3k resi (full bloodthirsthy + vicious weapons and a ring). So i had to go ret which i dont like in cata tbh.
    I’m gonna farm like crazy wednesday and guessing i’ll be full vicious by the end of the week. That will give me around 3.7 k resi, not resi gemmed or enchanted. Pure DPS.
    We are a weird thing. What’s our purpose in arena? We aren’t dps,we dont heal, … just being annoying? I think going stamina, … would be great for rbg, but no fun in arena cause damage will be even lower, but im gonna try it :)
    Is our damage rly this bad? In regular bg i can top sometimes…

  41. Marko says:

    Blizz is getting rid of us by making us unplayable.

    • bloodniron says:

      Say what you want, you tend toward the negative, so… But those of us who are up to a challenge have found that it is playable, and fun!

      • Anthoneo says:

        @Dave. Our purpose in Arena is the same as everyone else, to win. However, Prot Paladins need to use their head more than their keyboard to do well thanks to less than favorable game mechanics. Taugrim also talks a lot about tactics.
        I am presently trying to figure out what I can do better in Arena, I can`t understand why in BG`s etc. I have little trouble taking down 2 players by myself in most situations yet in Arena it is much harder with me only able maybe 1/4 of the time. Particularly as everyone in BGs is using potions etc….

        We are an anomaly, but that to me is part of the fun, I often top the DPS, kills, or honor kills in BGs as many of us do, and RBGs are no different. So no, our damage is not bad at all, but we have to be smart how we use and balance it with survival. I can go into a BG as Ret and do obscene amounts of damage and pwn eveyone, however IF the other team is smart and focusses me, I die VERY quickly as Ret. So DPS isn`t everything.
        I also think more than other specs, our choice of partner is extremely important.

        @Marko. I know it`s frustrating mate. Until we get a fair go from Blizz with specs (and i`m certainly not holding my breath… ) we are never likely to be top of the rankings. But we can certainly do better than many other specs if played right. But yeah, like Blood said, try and be positive mate. Prot is still piles of fun, and there is nothing more rewarding than pwning others who at first laughed at or ignored you ;-)

  42. Dave Jacobs says:

    Full Vicious now (Phyll @ Auchindoun EU PVP), giving me 3669 resi.
    Hitcapped + 4 rating away from exp capped (mace + SoT glyph = 13 exp), rest is crit.

    Was wondering about the ‘Holy Shield’ change, making it an extra cooldown.
    Do we still use it? Is it usefull in PVP and if so, when?

    • Dave Jacobs says:

      I thought about it and macro’d it to SotR + WoG:

      SotR macro:
      #showtooltip Shield of the Righteous
      /cast Holy Shield
      /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
      /cast Shield of the Righteous
      /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

      Should be enough with these 2 i think…

    • Anthoneo says:

      I kinda saw this as a nerf going from passive to active. An extra button to push is a pain, but yeah definitely use it.

  43. Tri says:

    I play prot pally pvp and love it. I tried ret for 5 weeks in cata and didn’t really care for it. Did some arena, bg’s….not my thing. I switched back to prot and right off the bat felt at home again and have been doing pretty well. I’ve scoured the web for info and advice and have not found much. I’ve seen Taugrim’s vids and learned quite a bit but for some reason never visited the blog (stupid, stupid me). I think it’s great that you guys have kept the blog going helping people and are positive about prot pally’s in pvp. I’ll def keep up on the blog from now on, I’m always looking to improve. Please keep up the great work!!

    • Dave Jacobs says:

      I hear you Tri. Prot has easy basics and is fun to master. It’s forgiven for mistakes and keeps you going a long time in bg. Probably there’re better choices for arena but still, it depends a lot from your partner.

      A good tip for you guys is to look at Towelliee’s video’s on tgn network youtube. He’s a crazy (literally) paladin tank, that also does arena and bg as prot. His last bg video is a great example of what we can do and how much fun we can be. He gives great tips in the video as well (spec, do and don’ts, …). Just be warned, he can sound a bit annoying to some. I can personally live with it.

      Phyll, EU Auchindoun

      • Dave Jacobs says:

        World of Warcraft – Protection Paladin PvP Battlegrounds! Pwn ep4! (Towelliee) – TGN.TV

        This is the title when searching in youtube…
        Tell me if you like it, cheers

  44. Anthoneo says:

    Prot Paladin`s dead in PvP eh? Yesterday in Guineas I got top killing blows, top honor kills, top damage AND TOP HEALING all in the same battle. (no one tell Blizzard)

    For any doubters I even took a photo of the screen lol.

    Oh and I changed my mind about Flag carrying, it`s easy now :-p

  45. Anthoneo says:

    41k WoG. Average 18k with plenty 25k+. very few under 10k, none of these using trinkets or AW…… Come back Taugrimm :-)

    • Dave Jacobs says:

      Hey Anthoneo,

      41k WOG’s are sweet. The problem is the cooldown though, not the amount of healing.
      Still, i believe prot is an awesome spec, especially for bgs. We seem invincible!

      • Anthoneo says:

        I don`t think the cooldown is such a problem anymore with the WoGs average more than double before for me anyway (even though of course the cooldown sux) . I would rather have WoGs that big and a 20 sec cooldown than a spammable one that only gives me token heals. Yes we are untouchable in BGs, I actually hardly ever use WoG now. Also, if I do use it in a BG I will have either AW or a Trinket popped so the heals should be even bigger.

        I thought only Holy Pallies got this buff, but something must have rubbed off on us… One thing`s for sure, no way i`m saying anything on the WoW forums about any of this lol. The Blizz `Fun police` might get wind of it.

        I find myself getting called to be flag carrier most of the time now too, it`s kind of weird but cool.

  46. Dave Jacobs says:

    Have you seen the difference in ilvl between the honorgear (vicious) from last week and the viciousgear this week? Gotta farm all over again :-(

    • Anthoneo says:

      Yep, dunno how your post got in above mine from last night. But yeah, not happy at all…. Used a shitload of Gold on enchants etc, now it`s all gone…

      I`ve managed to at least get one bit of Ruthless gear this week. The worst thing is how to decide what to upgrade, and what should wait until we can get Ruthless…. just going to cost so much for enchants….the balancing act is far harder now.

  47. Anthoneo says:

    Just checking to make sure everyone knows the Blizz screwed everyone and there is now `Season 10 Vicious` gear that is slightly better than season 9. So we gotta go through it all again if we want to be competitive while we`re waiting to get Ruthless gear. It looks the same as Bloodthirsty lol.

    On another note. got WoGs up to 55k, but when there are the now invincible Holy Paladins or Shamans around am getting OOM way too often (never did last season), so we need to look at ways to get Intellect in without compromising Strength.

  48. Dave Jacobs says:

    Too bad we can’t put links here. I’d link my new set with reforging and enchants.
    Be sure to check wowreforge dot com

  49. Dave Jacobs says:

    I’m at 3850 resi in this set, not gemming resi (strictly str, crit and hit).
    Just need to find a way to play better, starting to stop clicking.

  50. Dave Jacobs says:

    2 questions:

    1) Does anyone know a good up 2 date guide/video of being flag carrier in RBG?
    Like do’s ad don’ts, …
    Should we gem/enchant the same for being FC in RBG as we do now or should we rly go for stamina, extra resil, dodge, …?

    2) Is everything still pretty much valid in Taugrims guide? Meaning Changes from 4.0.6 to 4.1 to 4.2 now?
    I know Holy Shield is now non-passive.

    • Anthoneo says:

      I don`t know of a guide but can speak from my own experience for what that`s worth. I have been doing a lot of Flag carrying lately and now have a few Ironman Acheivements (cap all 3 without dying in one battle).

      In my experience there is no difference between Rated and normal BGs (except people tend to be bossier) although the Rated BGs tend to be easier as no one is using potions etc.
      I have found simply focus on survival and NOT fighting back, just keep going. I generally have little trouble even without support (although I am always on Battleground chat making sure I have support, but I don`t always get it of course and do find myself alone quite a lot at the last bit anyway if my support is tied up). I have found the best support seems to be from Holy Pallies, Shamans and Druids or Priests although anyone is far better than nothing and I am always yelling for more lol.

      In the case that I am getting a little low on health, I will fight back and build up HP so I can pop off a 40~60k WoG then off I go again. Although I generally have enough HP simply as a result of being attacked to give myself a good heal or two with WoG anyway.

      As a rule, utilise Divine Protection and Holy Shield if you are being hit hard, and of course Ardent Defender. You have Divine Guardian also don`t forget and GoaK as well. I find I very rarely have to use LoH, but will use FoL.
      For anti CC we have HoF and for humans there is also EMFH and Turn Evil for minions. So we have a lot of tools to help as FC. Don`t bubble because it will make you drop the flag.

      Oh, I sometimes will use Seal of Insight if mana is getting too low and i`m getting hit really hard (Divine Plea doesn`t help much at all but is better than nothing), but mostly Seal of Truth is fine.

      If the enemy around me are melee including DKs, I can get through them pretty easily and only find myself in trouble when there are enough casters hitting me with constant CC and pinning me long enough, but that is pretty rare as if it gets that bad help generally arrives in time to save my butt.

      As far as carrying the flag, always go left and stick to the edge (either faction), what ever BG it is. Except Eye of the Storm where you have several possible bases to go to.

      Regarding Gems etc, certainly if you wanted to specialise in this and be virtually unkillable, gemming for Stam and Resil instead of Hit and Crit would certainly help. I don`t know if i`d Enchant for Stam or Resil instead of strength as it would affect your healing ability, but it could be worth experimenting with perhaps. Intellect also.

      I find that 90% of times I will die as FC is when i`ve gotten the flag to base and am waiting to cap, the others leave me then next thing the whole enemy team comes in lol.

      I don`t think i`ve missed anything… I hope this helps anyway.

      As far as this guide goes, the basics are all still valid in my opinion as far as stats, gemming, enchants etc. There are a few exceptions and changes now, but they are relatively minor although I feel positive more than not, and we have been covering those anyway.

      Have fun :-)

  51. Dave Jacobs says:

    K, another RBG night and i’m rly thinking of getting more resi. It makes sence since my job isn’t to dps peeps, but to stay alive, take/cap flag and protect my healers.
    So i’ll be goin full resi (around 4.4k is doable from what i’ve heard).
    I’ll also take the 15k healing PVP trinket + a new 1H weapon since i’d like to play aggresive aswell when not doin rbg. So i went to have a look at the PVP 1hders and found str or intel one. My thoughts are, as a FC, why should i take the str one over the intel one with extra spelpower?
    As DPS in fungames bg i oc have the str one, but what when needing to stay alive?

    Also, ins’t it better to use SoInsight instead of SoTruth for FC’ing? Every heal and/or damage reduction counts…

    • Cylarus says:

      To be honest, I’m taking a long hard look at holy as a FC option this patch. Ignoring survivability for a second, the mobility benefits added in this patch through the speed of light talent are intriguing. Chaining HR and DP together can certainly put some distance between you and your enemies with freedom up.

      Add shock and wog spam, and you’re looking at something that might be much harder to bring down that a traditionally specced prot paladin.

      I dropped Prot as my main pvp spec in favour of Ret after 4.1, but I have a holy off-spec that I am thinking about experimenting with.

    • Anthoneo says:

      Don`t forget you get 0.6 Intellect with every one point of strength, and this obviously affects your Spellpower also. If you want to go that way with the weapon, maybe get the strength one and put an Intellect Enchant on it… this may not make sense, but as a basic Stat strength is still better for Prot.
      It`s basically impossible to get some Intellect in without sacrificing Strength, but it may well be at least worth experimenting with in some cases. I have been thinking about it a lot as I am getting OOM way too much now and it cost me 3 Arena matches.

      I think the Willfull Ember Topaz is worth looking at for what you are thinking. You can use that and cover with Strength Enchants elsewhere maybe.
      In any case, if you are going to sacrifice something, Crit is probably the one that is least important purely for a survival build, and even Hit to a degree. Whenever I get over the Hit cap, I gem Stamina in until a gear upgrade puts me under the cap then I switch back.

      Regarding the Seal, I simply found that in most cases it wasn`t neccessary to use Insight as I was not ever getting below half health or mana and kept with Truth for the extra DPS IF I needed it. But if you wanted to play safe then yeah, maybe just go Insight. If there are a lot of casters on you though you will get low on mana so then definitely use Insight.

    • Anthoneo says:

      Sorry, the post below was meant to go in here…

      Dave, don`t forget you get 0.6 Intellect with every one point of strength, and this obviously affects your Spellpower also. If you want to go that way with the weapon, maybe get the strength one and put an Intellect Enchant on it… this may not make sense, but as a basic Stat strength is still better for Prot.
      It`s basically impossible to get some Intellect in without sacrificing Strength, but it may well be at least worth experimenting with in some cases. I have been thinking about it a lot as I am getting OOM way too much now and it cost me 3 Arena matches.

      I think the Willfull Ember Topaz is worth looking at for what you are thinking. You can use that and cover with Strength Enchants elsewhere maybe.
      In any case, if you are going to sacrifice something, Crit is probably the one that is least important purely for a survival build, and even Hit to a degree. Whenever I get over the Hit cap, I gem Stamina in until a gear upgrade puts me under the cap then I switch back.

      Regarding the Seal, I simply found that in most cases it wasn`t neccessary to use Insight as I was not ever getting below half health or mana and kept with Truth for the extra DPS IF I needed it. But if you wanted to play safe then yeah, maybe just go Insight. If there are a lot of casters on you though you will get low on mana so then definitely use Insight.

  52. bloodniron says:

    WHAT ABOUT HASTE?

    I asked awhile back, but no responses. If specc’d 3/31/7 with the 9% Haste buff from Judgements, and Reforge everything (after Hit 5% and Exp 20) to Haste, do you think this will give more damage? I can’t tell. Probably some Addon that I could get that could decipher it for me… So I’m lowering my Crit chances for Haste… Probably not wise… Maybe that’s why I’m not seeing so many crits, lol… I suppose the thing for me to do is go back to the more traditional model which Reforges to Crit…

    • Anthoneo says:

      I did a lot of testing on this on dummies with a DPS meter addon. Haste on `you` gives no extra DPS (well, about 10 dps tops using the Haste flask ~ +250 haste from memory) and therefore is not worth reducing something else. Haste on your weapon does make a big difference however, I have already mentioned this.

  53. Dave Jacobs says:

    In the case that I am getting a little low on health, I will fight back and build up HP so I can pop off a 40~60k WoG then off I go again. Although I generally have enough HP simply as a result of being attacked to give myself a good heal or two with WoG anyway.

    Can i ask you how you manage to pull 40-60k WOGs?
    A 3HoPo WoG gives me 17k-30k

    • Anthoneo says:

      My average WoG now is 25k, I very rarely see under 20k. Probably every 3rd one will be 45~50k. The biggest i`ve seen is 65k which was when I was carrying a flag in WG, so some buffs from other classes probably helped. But in the high 50`s at least a couple of times is pretty normal in BGs.

      I only really use WoG in BGs or Arena, and I haven`t been doing any Arena as all my partners are AWOL :-(
      But I remember one 45k WoG in Arena about a week and a half ago, I had somehow gotten down to no visible health at all and had a Rogue on me, I hit WoG and then took the Rogue down and we won, my partner was WTF I thought you were toast !?!? lol

      I was keeping an eye on it today in TB, couldn`t really see any reason why one would be 23k then the next 45k etc. At first I thought it might be if all the strength buffs are up but no it didn`t seem to be that. Maybe it`s something to do with having 4685 base strength and the relative boost to spellpower…I don`t know. I tried to find a Holy Power addon but there is nothing any good atm.
      I will keep an eye on it though and see if I can see why they are that high if you think it isn`t normal.

  54. Anthoneo says:

    Skype: anthoneo1 anyone is welcome to hit me up to talk Prot :-)

    @Dave, regarding WoG, the only real consistency I have noticed is that if I have 2 or more people attacking me, the WoGs tend to be consistently bigger. My base str is now up to 4770 and the average WoG size is definitely up so I can at east say that has something to do with it.

    One thing I think it may be, is Guarded by the Light and Rule of Law are up and I also have at least one str buff. It’s hard to keep an eye on all the Buffs while fighting, but at least GBtL is something to do with it.

    I went through a very bad patch trying to find a new 2′s partner and went through some shockers dropping my rating a lot lol. But I have found a good one now and atm we have won 9 out of 12 together. His gear level is only 361 but he’s very good at PvP. He’s a Dwarf Holy Pally. We owned all DPS combos easily within prolly 3 mins and the 3 we lost were against a Holy Pally and Rougue (35 min match, my partner gave up lol), and a Priest / Druid combo we got twice. There was nothing I could do about the second team at all, they had me either Feared or Cycloned constantly :-(

    Other than that, i’ve tentatively joined a 3′s and a 5′s Team and we’ll see how we go ;-)

  55. Dave Jacobs says:

    Aloha Anthoneo,

    Keeping the thread alive :)

    I’m proud to say i’ve reached 1.9k in RBG as Flag Carrier. Just changed my spec a bit, which should give me extra heals. I only need to change some glyphs and use SoT whe it’s a non flag map like AB.

    Problem is finding a decent guild now. One without cocky 14y old’s who blame other for their own mistakes just because they paid for a ‘gladiator’ title.

  56. Anthoneo says:

    Grats Dave! That’s awesome. A good team makes all the difference :-)

    I have had the same issues with guild, finding a good Arena Partner, and was even seriously considering a server change. But at the last minute I was actually approached by a Pally friendly guild wanting me to Tank for their RBGs coz they’d seen me in BGs a lot and knew my Guild was falling apart. So I joined.
    They are very organised and have 3 dedicated RBG teams, I am now Tank for the ‘A’ Team. The previous guy was a Prot Warrior who had simply gemmed all Resil up to 4.3 Resil… they couldn’t understand why I could last so much longer lol an was popping 40k plus heals all day.

    Funny thing was, I was telling them how ‘good’ Prot Pallys are and next thing I know the Guild Master Challenges me to a duel with his Marksman Hunter main. Lasted about 2 minutes max lol, absolutely Pwned him. Great guys though and I think this is what I needed. Have already gone from 384, to 1200 RBG rating in one day hehe.

    All I need now is a decent Arena partner or two and i’ll be a happy man :-)

    In any case, I can say with no uncertainty that Prot Paladin specced as per Taugrim`s guidlines is untouchable in BG`s esp as an FC.
    Unless there are a couple of Arcane Mages, I can easily tie up 5 enemy players for as long as I like.

    And funnily enough, it actually works very well as Ret Pally also ;-)

  57. Anthoneo says:

    Hey guys.

    Yep, Anthoneo@daggerspine. My build strategy is basically exactly what Taugrim recommends with only a few minor exceptions which I have found are better for me due to Patch changes, and doing many many hours of testing on Dummies and NPCs such as Problim. As well as then trying things in BGs. These may also though simply be a result of my play style as well.

    @Bloodniron, I have been ‘playing’ with Ret as a ploy to get Arena partners, then I swap back to Prot hehe, and just for fun. I am only in Ret occasionally. Don’t worry, Prot will always be my main :-) If you have one specced like Taugrim suggests atm, just grab the PvP 2 hander, enchant the Pyrium weapon chain, copy my Ret talent tree and give it a go!

    I can say that this Prot build does work with Ret, and looking at the builds of many top Ret Paladins, I was surprised that many are close to what I have. The ONLY difference is mastery here and there, and realistically that is splitting hairs IMO. It is though taking me a while to get used the different spells and quite different fighting style for Ret….they move so damn slow and attack speed is terrible lol

    I don’t want to come across as a dick, but I have not been beaten yet one on one by another Paladin since I hit Bloodthirsty gear, including in Arena, and about a week ago took down a BElf Ret and an undead Rogue by myself. I will say that to see another PvP Prot in Cyclone Battlegroup is very rare now. But until proven otherwise ( and I may be), I still believe that Prot is stronger than Ret in most cases, and I believe that if I can find a good, reliable partner, an Arena ranking of 2000 + is possible. I have spent a few days at over 1500 with a matchmaking level of 1800 when I was a beginner, and I have a lot more experience now.
    The only combination I dread in 2′s is a Shadow Priest and Feral / Resto Druid combo as they keep me CC’d all the time :-( I’ll figure it out though.

    While I spend a LOT of time testing and studying Prot, again I want to say THANK YOU to Taugrim for this guide, it is the best and has saved me a lot of time!

    I now have a (hopefully) regular Holy Pally, and a Subtelty Rogue as 2`s partners, and we have done very well so far.

    And yeah, I talk too much.

    Keep fighting :-D

    Skype: Anthoneo1

  58. bloodniron says:

    Got into a new guild that is focused on PvP. They asked me to be FC/BGTank, and to gem Resil, with the idea that they will give me my STR gems back if I don’t like it. So I’ve had some fun with them. A few wins so far. I changed my spec to focus on survivability. Currently close to 4.3k Resil.

    I decided, this being my purpose in (R)BGz, to go the mixed gear route and pick up the 2-piece Ornamented gear for the +400 Resil bonus. I got shoulders last night and should have legs today or tomorrow. Less Strength/damage, yes, but a large chunk of Resil+larger mana pool+faster mana regeneration=greater survivability. At least that’s my theory, and it worked awhile back when I did it, pre-Cata…

    BLOODnIRON@Gnomeregan (Alliance)

    • Anthoneo says:

      Hmm, let us know how you go, I will be interested to hear.

      With your 4.3k Resil you have 41.97% damage reduction but with a marked reduction in self healing (much less Spell power) and self defense ability, compared to my 3.8k Resil with 38.43% damage reduction… only an extra 3.54 % dude…
      My way of thinking and experience is that you won’t always have enough support or healers, especially if guarding bases or waiting in the Flag room, and you will have to defend and heal yourself. And it is fairly unlikely you would go OOM as a flag carrier.

      But I understand that your guild prolly doesn’t understand Prot Pally mechanics and look at us like Warriors. The extra Resil IMO would only be worth it for Cloth or Leather Armor wearers who can’t self heal much.
      I went through this exact same BS with my new guild with the BG organiser saying my Resil wasn’t enough to Tank and he initially kicked me from the Team, I said I don’t need an extra couple of % Resil when I can WoG for 25~65k and have LoH as well as our other buffs, and explained it all but ended up I literally had to prove it after a big fight with him in guild chat lol, the Guild master was one of a few who wanted me so I got the chance to prove it.
      The most frustrating this was that this guy is a Holy Paladin lol

      Also, as you get more Ruthless or Vicious gear, you’ll get the Resil anyway. Just my 2 cents worth but see how you go anyway. Maybe as you get the better gear, just Gem STR back and don’t tell them!

      And hurry up and come back to Daggerspine, i’m waiting for my new Arena partner ;-)

    • bloodniron says:

      Ah crap… well, the dual 2-piece idea STILL doesn’t work. I got my 2nd piece of Holy (Ornamented), and when equipped, the tooltip SHOWED the +400 Resil, but it did not register in my character sheet info. Bah… So I quickly traded it back for my hp’s. I am keeping my Holy shoulders that I bought – I get more Mana pool, and quicker mana regen from them, so trade out.

      I regemmed using all hybrids to add some STR back in for heal purposes. I’ve been doing great in the BGz…

  59. mark123 says:

    Just a quick comment: BG’s, espcially PUG are quite different from RBG’s and Arena. The skill sets are quite different as are the requirements, composition, and specs. When I go into BG’s it’s pretty much a free for all but in RBG’s it’s all about organization, team and communication.

    • Anthoneo says:

      I know, I find in normal BG`s it’s often (not always) even easier to stay alive as the opposition team isn’t as organised lol.

  60. Nualis says:

    Hia!

    Im currently building my prot pvp gear..can’t wait to try it out! Quick question: what aura do you guys use? Been looking at Towelliee and he is using resistance both in arena and bg’s.

    • Anthoneo says:

      Hi Nualis.
      Use Retribution, unless there are casters focusing you enough to be a problem, then use Resistance.

  61. Nualis says:

    What about meta gem?
    Crit? Spellreflect?

    • Anthoneo says:

      As Taugrim says, # Meta socket: Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond (+54 Str and 3% Increased Critical Damage)

    • Nualis says:

      Well have you guys tried anything else or is this “the” meta socket to use?
      I have the str and crit myself since its the obvious one but Im just askin you guys since you’ve had time to do some testing:) I haven’t got the gear yet to make up my own “mind”. Just 2 pvp items so far,hehe.

      • Anthoneo says:

        I personally wouldn’t bother with anything else. As Taugrim says, and as I have argued also, STR should always be Gemmed where it can as so many of our Talents and Spells are reliant on it.

        I have experimented with other stats, and IF you have reached your hit cap, then maybe gem Sovereign Demonseye into blue sockets for some extra STAM, but STR is still our most important stat.

        With Enchants there is a bit more flexibility, but if I am at Hit cap, again I always go STR if possible because I want the Spellpower increase. Or CRIT.

        Some people summise that gemming and enchanting away from STR gives more ‘balance’ or ‘versatility’, but that is forgetting the fact that Prot is already a balanced and versatile spec.

        My 2 cents worth.

        Good luck :-)

        • Nualis says:

          Thx mate!
          I know there has been a discussion about using darkmoon card earlier because of the strength bonus, I wonder if its possible to gem resilience ( if you have jewelcrafting that is ) and use the “new” str trinket: apparatus of k…etc.. and still have enough resilience? The use ability of the trinket might add some extra dps? ( using the macro for burst dmg )

          Again with the questions,hehe.

          Nualis

          Nualis

          • Anthoneo says:

            As I said above, I don’t believe a few extra percent damage reduction from gemming even all resil, is worth the big reduction in self defense and self healing ability. We are plate armor wearers and have excellent damage mitigation if used correctly even if our own damage output is nothing special. And don’t forget, as you upgrade to Ruthless gear you will be way past the point of Resil diminishing returns anyway because even just a few pieces gives you 3800+ Resil.

            Seriously all this Resil talk is either Warrior Tank or Cloth armor wearer mentality. To them, every 1% is worth it. We are different.

            The only FCs that come close to us in efficiency are Blood DKs as they also have plate armor, and self healing abilities as well.

            Just today I was in Twin Peaks as FC with my ‘strength build’, sitting in the Flag room alone waiting for the DPS to kill the EFC, there was a DK, a Rogue, and a Shaman hitting me full on and I just stood there dancing and hit the occasional WoG. Then I took out the Rogue and DK by myself, help arrived, and wiped the Shaman.

            Later in the same BG but a different battle the same thing again plus a Hunter hitting me from upstairs, with just me and a Holy Pally from our team, it was so easy lol.

            I never get killed taking the flag from A to B. IF I get taken down, it is only in the Flag room with no healer and the enemy team hits me really hard for more than a couple of minutes.

            I’m nothing special, If I can do it, everyone can do it.

            • Anthoneo says:

              Oh, regarding the trinkets, I stick with the PvP STR ones, but there are some pretty nasty PvP weapons and Trinkets out now, so yes if your Resil is high enough, they are definitely worth looking at as options.
              I have the PvP weapon, but I use a PvE one and will continue to until I upgrade to the Ruthless PvP one, or can get my hands on a high level PvE one ;-)

              At the moment in RBGs, the hard to beat teams have all been armed with PvE gear :-P

  62. mark123 says:

    I do that all the time – i gem resil and trinket strength. If I am with a 4 healer group in RBG’s I can also add another damage trinket. Remember we wear plate which also gives us protection. In some instances I will use both of my resil trinkets because the situation necessitates i.e., damage abilities of the opposing team. Just be flexible and add macros that allow you to switch in and out with a single key stroke.

    Always in bg’s and rbg’s look at the opposing team before you enter the bg and size up your needs. Also look at your team mates and make decisions on their strengths and weaknesses. Make use of that wait time. Don’t just sit there. Since damage spec’ed paladins are second class players, we need look at any advantage we can leverage on the field.

  63. bloodniron says:

    Been going back and forth, spending gold on gems… I looked at the numbers, and the difference in WoG healz when ya go back and gem all STR is minimal as well.

    So, gem STR, have more damage (which aint really our forte anyways)

    OR gem RESIL and have more damage reduction, and slightly less WoGs…

    I imagine that at the end of the day, its 6 of one or half a dozen of the other…

    • Anthoneo says:

      Resil is vital for PvP, but the amount we now get with our gear puts us easily past the point of diminishing returns.
      Gemming all Resil will give you at the most an extra 3~4% damage reduction ATM (which will continue to reduce as you get more Ruthless gear). But the reduction in Spellpower from the loss in STR will give you prolly a 10% drop in self healing ability or more (as well as your ability to defend yourself), which might not seem like much, but to me it will more than compensate for the minor buff from Gemming Resil. and is more than enough to save your ass when in trouble.
      Even with a bit more damage reduction from Resil, moving away from STR makes you more reliant on healers, which I personally don’t like.
      The ability to heal yourself for even an extra 5% is far greater than an extra 5% damage reduction. Think about it.

      The other main Tank in my guild is a Prot Warrior with 4.3k Resil, and he goes down much quicker than I do once the healers are taken out, even though he`s a much more experienced Tank than I am. He will only really do RBGs with 4 healers, whereas I don’t really care as long as we have at least 2.

      Don’t really know what else I can say about it.

      Regarding out Damage output, this is one of the reasons I am in no hurry to upgrade my weapon, it is much better overall now to upgrade the other gear first in my opinion given the STR, STAM, and Resil we get from them.

      One interesting thing I found in testing, Mastery does seem to have some benefit for us now compared to Crit. Crit doesn’t do anything for our constant damage output and is very situational it seems. Testing on Dummies, I ‘unreforged’ Crit back to Mastery on Helm and Cloak, and did more damage wtf…
      And given the extra defence against Melee, it seems from where I sit, a better stat for Prot as a Tank than Resil (PROVIDED your ilvl is at least 365 and you have the Resil from that).

      Food for thought anyway.

  64. mark123 says:

    Getting consistent damage would seem like the way to go and the practice dummies can verify the benefits of mastery. But…. being kited, feared, stunned, frozen, silenced, etc. reduces my consistency. So when I am finally attacking, I need everything I have which means I need the big crit. Dummies are great but their real-world function is questionable. Field testing is they way to go. Since the playing field is different each game, you would have to do a lot of testing.

    I don’t do heavy mastery or crit but seek a balanced approach between the two..

    • Anthoneo says:

      Agreed Mark, balance is what i’m looking for too. The biggest Damage Crits I am consistently managing are only about 37k with my best only 41k (most are around 25k though). But considering I don’t use Macros (but am looking at it now) that’s prolly not too bad. And the damage output is very constant. My WoG Crits are much bigger though with HP up they are never below 25k and prolly half are 45k with the biggest ones well over 60k.

      I noticed that the only difference between my set up and the top Rets was Mastery, and as I have been doing a lot of Ret lately to get into RBGs when someone else is Tanking, I wanted to see if a move from Crit to Mastery would harm Prot, and it was actually better.
      Rets still can’t beat me as Prot though :-p

      I only have the Helm and Cloak back to the standard Mastery at the moment and certainly won’t put any more in without a lot of testing and won’t do anything that will harm Prot. Generally my testing procedure is: I will do at least an hour or two on Dummies and average everything out, then Problim in TB, then BGs.

      For what it’s worth, GMs told me that the dummies are about 90% accurate, which to me seems about right.

  65. bod says:

    I just did my first ever few 2×2 arenas using this spec with only season 10 vicious shoulders, legs and chest from honor points I had bought with justice points, the rest of my gear being reasonable 353-359 pve damage stuff. k the first 5 were wipes, because I had to get used to pvp having only ever pve’d before but over all i got 8 wins out of 11, which i thought was quite good, given my lack of experience. I will be sticking with this spec for now.

  66. Jordan says:

    I’ve started a 3′s team with an Arms Warrior, and Resto Druid. We won 5/6 battles. This seems to be a great team. We’ve been 3′s dos teams and 3′s teams similar to us. Bomb the healer and/or caster and you’ve won. I’m not the best geared, I’ve got mostly vicious 9 and 10 and some bloodthirsty and a couple ruthless. Check out my gear/gems/spec: Polifema. I love being a tank. keep it up.

    PS I wish taugrim would come back and do some 4.3 updates… :)

    • bloodniron says:

      Checked your gear. Remember enchants…proper Cata Prot/Ret enchants. Good going with the 3′s team, glad you are having fun with it and feeling good! Keep it up.

      Bloodniron@Gnomeregan

    • taugrim says:

      Jordan :

      PS I wish taugrim would come back and do some 4.3 updates… :)

      I could only do that if I were playing WoW again, so that I could test out the game mechanics myself.

      I’m playing RIFT now, and the next game(s) I would consider playing are SWTOR and GW2.

      Hope things go well for your 3s team :)

      • bloodniron says:

        Tau…

        I wish I could jump to RIFT, but at this point, I’m afraid that I’d just get in the same situation somehow. I have so much time and expense vested in WOW via Bloodniron… I can’t see leaving. Although I must say its hard as hell right now to feel like I’m doing anything worthwhile. Worthwhile in a game? Hmmm… Well ya know what I mean… I just want to kick a little ass once in awhile, and not have to relearn everything.

        • taugrim says:

          bloodniron :

          Tau…

          I wish I could jump to RIFT, but at this point, I’m afraid that I’d just get in the same situation somehow. I have so much time and expense vested in WOW via Bloodniron… I can’t see leaving. Although I must say its hard as hell right now to feel like I’m doing anything worthwhile. Worthwhile in a game? Hmmm… Well ya know what I mean… I just want to kick a little ass once in awhile, and not have to relearn everything.

          I understand what you mean by time invested.

          The thing is, sunk cost is sunk cost. If you don’t feel like you aren’t doing anything wortwhile, does that mean you aren’t enjoying yourself?

          A new game might be refreshing. Learning new mechanics can be fun.

          Check this out, it’s the RIFT spec calculator. Just looking at it is what convinced me to try RIFT:
          http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html

  67. bloodniron says:

    taugrim :

    I understand what you mean by time invested.
    The thing is, sunk cost is sunk cost. If you don’t feel like you aren’t doing anything wortwhile, does that mean you aren’t enjoying yourself?
    A new game might be refreshing. Learning new mechanics can be fun.
    Check this out, it’s the RIFT spec calculator. Just looking at it is what convinced me to try RIFT:http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html

    Thanks. Yeah, that’s what I mean. Sometimes I enjoy WoW, sometimes I don’t. Being Prot Paladin as my Main, I almost always feel underpowered (except against noobs…), and/or misunderstood, which leads to this funk feeling. And at 49, I sometimes wonder if I should be playing at all…

    But I enjoy sci-fi/fantasy, enjoy games… Just want to feel more successful with it. Had a bad night of it last night, Guild leader asked if I wanted to FC/tank some RBGz, and of course I did. So he asked my resilience. It was like 3980 with all Strength gems. So he balks, so I change my gems out for all +40 (and +67) Resil gems, get it up to 4514. He gets me in group, we queue, we hit WSG, and… the other team was damn good, and I suspect that our team was not playing as we should. They split, with a few healers going with me, and the rest of the team going after enemyFC. So I get almost back to our flagroom, and get jumped by almost the entire enemy team in the tunnel. I die. And die again. And die again. They win, 3/0.

    And so…everyone bails, and my regemming was for nought. No strength, and of course, as you and others rightly point out, not only our damage, but our heals are enhanced by how much Strength we have.

    It doesn’t help that yesterday I got a wild hair and changed race to Dwarf! And didn’t have a trinket… I like the dwarves… But yeah, that was dumb, and it cost $25… At this point, Bloodniron has been Human, Blood Elf, Tauren, Human again, and now Dwarf. What next?!

    Regarding RIFT… I’d be more interested if I could get a friend to play. I don’t like to play alone. I have a RL friend that I do Arena and various achievements with in WoW. He is unlikely to start a different game. But maybe I should check it out and see what its all about, and if I dig it, maybe I could convince him to at least trial it. He could put his WoW on hold for a month or two and not have extra cost.

    Sorry to ramble on… Last night was a real bummer, and I’ve had long strings of bummers, with some rare victories… The victories are usually in RANDOM BGz… :-) I can’t seem to get into an RBG to save my life. Don’t even have the “Private” title yet, and ALL I DO is PvP… WTF!

    Signed,

    Bloodniron
    Frustrated Prot Paladin

    • bloodniron says:

      Okay, thinking about RIFT… Given that I love melee, I love Tanking, and I want to produce viable dps, if I join, do you suggest that I try the RB/Champ/Paladin spec that you talk about in your blog?

      And is there a good overview of what to REALLY expect, in regard to PvP?

      Maybe a change to something more…flexible…would be good.

      • taugrim says:

        bloodniron :

        Okay, thinking about RIFT… Given that I love melee, I love Tanking, and I want to produce viable dps, if I join, do you suggest that I try the RB/Champ/Paladin spec that you talk about in your blog?

        Well, if you would be OK healing 3 times as effectively as your Prot PVP Pally but having half the DPS, you could run what I use, my M*A*S*H Melee Healer Cleric spec:

        To me, M*A*S*H provides functional DPS, with some mini-burst:
        taugrim.com/2011/08/27/mash-rift-cleric-healer-pvp-guide/

        Check out the videos to see what it’s like.

        bloodniron :

        And is there a good overview of what to REALLY expect, in regard to PvP?

        The main differences, compared to WoW PVP:
        1. a lot of DPS specs have functional healing
        2. Warriors are squishier in RIFT compared to other games but pack hard burst damage

    • Marko says:

      I don’t know guys, but Blizz has screwed pallys, RET and PROC. They made a hybrid class that really has no utility. It’s really sad that we get left off the PVP invites, that we can’t compete with other classes. It’s really sad that others are so OP’ed. When it comes to blance – Blizz is fail. I think thy have really lost it. Now the Pandas are coming out. I am done. I am not playing with Pandas.

  68. Anthoneo says:

    Warriors are pretty squishy in WOW now too ;-) Prot Pally destroys them.

    I have been doing well in RBGs and Arena considering the server I am on is a joke for PvP and finding a partner who will do Arena other than for points cap is basically impossible. I am leveling another Pally on Tichondrius and will see how that server is and if it is worthwhile, it certainly is way more hardcore than Daggerspine lol.

    I have been experimenting with Mastery and have found it is not as useless a stat for us as we thought, whereas Crit is not what it’s cracked up to be and a balance between the 2 seems a good way to go. That and trying different weapon specs and enchants, I have found that for pure survivability the ‘Weapon Mending’ enchant is really good making a noticeable difference. That and getting my First Aid skill up too lol, I am am about as unkillable as possible, without sacrificing too much DPS. I have not gemmed Resil (except for belt where I had a spare blue socket and didn’t need hit so I put in 20 Resil/30 Stam ) or moved away from STR as the main stat.

    I go into RBGs and Arena with my ‘damage’ weapon, and depending on the opponents I will change to the ‘survival’ one. This is especially helpfull in BGs where damage is better for caps, and survival is better for protecting caps or as FC. It is sometimes amazing how long I can survive with half the enemy team DPS’ing me lol. And in some cases I even wear them down enough to kill them all, (prolly nubs though lol).

    The 40% extra damage buff to SoT via Censure we just got is also a welcome boost to out damage muhahaha :-)

    • Dave Jacobs says:

      Aloha,

      I’m still loving the prot pvp. Only in bgs though, arena isn’t much fun for me but i don’t realy care :)

      The thing i’m still wondering about is the reforging.
      What do we reforge to? Crit or Mastery?
      Crit seems good for damage, but as FC we need to last longer.
      Mastery seems only good against melee damage…

      And for weapon enchant, we have only 2 choices imo (as fc).
      Mending or Wind Walker.

      Any tips/suggestions?
      How can we know/test which is the best choice?

      • Anthoneo says:

        @Dave,
        I have been going back and forth between Crit and Mastery, and for now will stay with Mastery as it really helps when I spec as Ret (which is about 50% of the time these days to get Arena, and RBGs when they want to use a DK or Druid for FC). From my experience as FC, survivability does seem better, although it is hard to tell.
        I have also been experimenting with different Prot talent builds on my other 85 Pally and may have found one that greatly increases survivability (with lower damage of course) but am still experimenting with that. The main difference is with an extra 60% Crit chance on WoG.

        Regarding the enchant, I have found that Mending, used with Seal of Insight gives pretty good constant healing and is more than enough if you only have a couple of people on you hitting you hard.
        When I don’t have the Flag, I still use a higher damage PvE weapon and Landslide.

        • bloodniron says:

          I tried Ret again, for a week… Still don’t like it. “Rotation” too clunky. Yeah, I know… there is no rotation for Ret, but still…

          So I decided that what I needed to do was reacquaint myself with our basic Paladin abilities, and “Calling”, make sure I’m using my healing, utility, etc., abilities, and not just trying to kill stuff and self-heal.

          Made a macro that target’s my 2′s partner with a bubble and a heal, and that in itself helped already.

          Gemming according to Taugrim’s guide (RED: Strength; BLUE: Strength/Hit; YELLOW: Strength/Resil).

          Reforging to Crit, after an exact 5% Hit. Mastery does next to nothing for us. In my experience, the one’s that are really hurting me are casters, and Block is only useful against melee that we are facing. (Those filthy back-stabbing rogues are not hindered by our Mastery…).

          I played with Haste awhile. Found that it does not much of anything as well. Stick to Crit. Makes for higher damage, and better heals. Yes, we are reliant on RNG, but… So is everyone in the game.

          • Anthoneo says:

            Yeah Ret takes a bit of getting used to, will take a lot more than a week to really get to know it.

            But as with Prot, there is NO ‘rotation’ for PvP, everything is situational. I still don’t use any macros for attack at all.

            Probably the closest thing we have to a rotation are some basic attacks/spells that we can spam to a degree, because interrupts will reset a lot of what we use which will seriously mess with macros and the like.
            The only macros you need are for WoG, HoP, and Freedom for your partner(s) if Arena. And maybe a burst macro one if you like.

            The key to PvP is keybinds, this is where time is gained or lost.

            Regarding Mastery, I have found it helps to have the extra block when an FC. I can effectively completely ignore Rogues, DKs, and Warriors(lol) and just worry about Casters.

            If Arena though, yes a Crit build is still probably better for sure.
            In my case I have just had to balance things.

            Regarding Haste, as I mentioned some time ago, I did LOT of testing on Dummies and found that on the weapon it gave a worthwhile DPS increase (38 Haste = 61 DPS), but anywhere else on you only about 10DPS so is not worth it compared to what you give away to get it.

      • bloodniron says:

        In regard to BG’s…

        First thing I do when I beam into a random BG is set my role as “Tank.” Then see what healers there are, if any. Make sure you have a healer, and you don’t have to worry so much about SoI and heal-proccing weapon chants.

        SoT and Landslide will kill your attackers quicker. Make sure you have some good macros for those “O Snap!” moments…

        Best bet is to make friends with a PvP healer on your server. Run together when you can, so you don’t have to wonder about the healers in your randoms…

        Meanwhile, get your gear up to par as best you can. And don’t forget… PROTECTION PALADIN: ITS NOT JUST A JOB, ITS AN ADVENTURE.

  69. Nghtlight says:

    I have been looking over some of the new PTR data that is coming out and would some feedback on an idea I have for the upcoming PVP Season. I have enjoyed playing as a Prot Pall in PVP since i first came across this thread in the beginning of cataclysm and have been rolling with the punches that have come through the last few patches. I am definitely excited about the buff to Vengeance

    the first melee attack taken by the tank generates Vengeance equal to 33% of the damage taken by that attack. In addition, as it updates periodically during the fight, it’s always set to at least 33% of the damage taken by the tank in the last 2 seconds

    as it will make it more viable in PVP.

    The second think is the 2 piece raid set bonus

    Your Judgement ability now also grants a physical absorb shield equal to 25% of the damage it dealt.

    I am thinking about replacing my hands and legs with 2 of these pieces. I have done a little calculating with the data on the PTR and I should still be about to get around 4.1k Resil with the raid piece in my set and the mitigation fromt he bubble should be high since i keep my judgement on cooldown. I am hoping this may help even out my dmg as now i currently take the most dmg from spell casters and this bubbles should help mitigate that.

    I would like to here some other Prot PVP Opinions

    • bloodniron says:

      I have not seen this yet. Been away for a few days playing RIFT (BADASS GAME!!!).

      Regarding this PVE 2-piece Judgement bonus… Let’s look at the numbers. If I recall correctly, If I use SoT, my 85 Prot with strength stacked to the gills has a Judgement that hits for around 3k damage.

      .25 x 3000 = 750

      So… What you’re saying is that you will give up whatever you are giving up (including the 4-piece PvP bonus) for the sake of having a physical absorb shield of 750… Doesn’t sound like much of a deal to me.

      • Nghtlight says:

        I agree that at first it doesn’t sound like much and it may also just be a situational build. Also I have not tested the way the absorb works yet so many of these factors will play a part in the viability of this combo. such as can you store it up and how long it last before it falls off.

        As for trade offs
        The 4p you give up are 1s cooldown reduction on judgement and 90str.
        but you gain and extra gem slot from the raid legs and the stats seem to be very fairly equal.

        so for the sake of things lets say that the only thing you are trading is the resilience from pvp pieces and the judgements 1s cooldown reduction.

        Now with the high amount of resil that is already on all of the rest of the pvp gear we will be way over the soft cap and the question really is do we more mitigation from the absorb or the resilience.

        I know .25 x 3000 = 750 doesn’t seem like much but it equates to 5625 per minute which it not going to make you OP but may save your life

      • Shane says:

        I haven’t done any experimenting on PTR yet, but plan to in the next week or so.

        Since Ret is taking a bit of an ass kicking from a pvp perspective (even though it’s being sold as a buff), I plan on playing around with prot again to see how it feels.

        With the substantial buff to Judgement of Truth, as well as some of the other baseline changes (vengeance for example), I expect that this patch will somewhat narrow the gap in “practical damage output” for pvp between prot and ret. Obviously ret will still be miles ahead on stationary targets or dummies, but with the reduction of ranged burst in favour of damage which requires melee range, and no improvements to mobility (snare/gap closer), I expect that ret will be worse off after the patch goes live unless the patch notes change substantially between now and then.

        • Cylarus says:

          ^^ For the sake of continuity of comments, this was posted by Cylarus of Darkspear. Damn pre-populated fields.

          • Anthoneo says:

            Ret is losing most of it`s Crit from Hammer of Wrath, but the general consensus now is a pretty good boost to overall damage with the other changes. I guess time will tell which way it really goes…

  70. bloodniron says:

    Here’s a question that I have that relates to this recent discussion of the physical absorb shield…

    How is the damage reduction/mitigation calculated?

    For example, let’s say an enemy player hits you for 15k physical damage. Where does the 15k damage go?

    Does the 15k first hit the physical absorb shield for 750, leaving 14,250 damage
    the 14,250 hits the armor for 35% damage reduction

    • bloodniron says:

      Sorry, did not mean to post the above. Was still trying to formulate my question, and lost sight of it… Please disregard, or remove if possible. Thanks…

      • bloodniron says:

        Got no time, nor brainpower, for study of the matter… Lol…

      • Nghtlight says:

        I think it is Valid. I am trying to figure all the details out myself. I am also interested in knowing if it stacked or builds up if you are judging and not taking dmg. Also if it does what is the decay rate or duration of the shield

  71. bloodniron says:

    Okay, lunch time, mayhap I can think this thru a bit. Just a bit…

    I’m not a theorycrafter, so I don’t know all the formulae/Math involved but here’s my basic understanding…

    Someone hits you with an ability that should produce ‘Z’ physical damage.
    Your armor reduces the damage of Z by a certain percentage, so that Z is lowered.
    Your Block/Parry/etc… also reduces it somewhat.
    Resilience (in PvP situations) reduces damage further…

    But my thought is that, somewhere along the line, that 750hp physical absorb shield doesn’t count for a whole lot, so why not use gloves that have a damage boost, i.e., the PvP gloves?

    Pretty much, every time you Judge (once every 8 seconds?), you’ll create this 750hp physical absorb shield. But very, very likely, someone’s going to be hitting you back. That 750 will be gone in less than one tick. What happens the rest of the time, and to the rest of the damage dealt, is of far more importance, imho, than the 750hp…

  72. [...] at launch and (time permitting) write up detailed Guides for PVP and PVE. I mean Guides like this one, which to-date has ~1000 comments and is stickied on the WoW Pally [...]

  73. zeonis says:

    sooo…why arent we gemming/reforgeing for dodge/parry ….would seem to be the go to stats to stack for an FC blizz seems intent on making squishy in comparison to the other FC options.

    • bloodniron says:

      zeonis :sooo…why arent we gemming/reforgeing for dodge/parry ….would seem to be the go to stats to stack for an FC blizz seems intent on making squishy in comparison to the other FC options.

      If you know your Prot, then you know that our MASTERY is about Chance to Block… So if you want to go that route, you would be much better off by stacking/prioritizing Mastery than Dodge or Parry. HOWEVER… That being said, Block, Dodge, and Parry are ONLY good for melee/physical attacks that you are facing. They do NOTHING against the many non-physical attacks we face out there. THEREFORE Resilience is what we want, defensively, in PvP, as far as an FC/BG-defender goes.

      As far as Blizz-intent… Bah, who knows.

      Have fun out there!

      • zeonis says:

        feel free to checkme out on kil’ jaeden..not too shabby for my first season :) in fact i found that gem for gem chant for chant the amount of dodge/parry we can attain vs the amount of mastery able to be attained, the dodge/parry stack mitigates approx double (2.3times) the amount of dmg. i can only assume at this point however that the amount of res stacked within the same slots would have to mitigate more dmg than the dodge/parry stack as only physical attacks facing us would be mitigated same as block. i’ll check it out and let ya know…..i’ve found the best arena partner to be a blood dk synchronizing our cc’s and bursts has proven quite effective….what are some of your rbg ratings and prefered healer combinations of the moment….i am partial to a disc and a resto druid on me atm

        as far as blizz goes….screw em, i am glad i roll a class and spec i cant smash my face into my keyboard with and still come out looking like a champion.

  74. Eric says:

    Might be a stupid thing to ask, but do you have older versions of your guide, specifically back to patch 3.3.5? I watched the old videos and I was instantly a fan of how you play. I’m new to the class and PvP with a Prot Pally, so any help would be great. I’m also on a private server which is why I’m playing 3.3.5. Thanks

  75. Gregorstuff says:

    rofl thx for this man i wanted to know this rly bad

  76. Dave Jacobs says:

    Hey Guys

    New season coming up.
    Have you checked the new PVE tier bonuses and are they worth it maybe taking a 2p PVE set bonus? Or should we keep playing with the 4p RET PVP ones?

    I’m thinking of these…
    * Old PVE Prot seems good for extra SoTR damage, but we lose bit of str + 400 resi and some basic stats.
    * New PVE Prot seems good for Flag Carriers.
    * New PVE Ret seems nice for anyone realy. Fastter Holy Power

    - NEW PVP:
    (2) Set: +400 resilience rating.
    (2) Set: Increases Strength by 70.
    (4) Set: Reduces the cooldown of your Judgements by 1 sec.
    (4) Set: Increases Strength by 90.

    - OLD PVE PROT:
    2 pieces: Your Shield of the Righteous deals 20% additional damage as Fire damage.

    - NEW PVE RET:
    2 pieces: Your Judgement ability now also generates 1 Holy Power.

    - NEW PVE PROT:
    2 pieces: Your Judgement ability now also grants a physical absorbtion shield equal to 25% of the damage it dealt.

  77. Anthoneo says:

    Both Ret and Prot much stronger now. Ret`s filling the 3`s upper ranks, and Prots starting to creep into some 5`s teams here and there. BGs are seeing Prot a lot more now too yay!

    Hey Bloodniron, get back over here to DS and join my guild bro, nothing but ARENA and RBGs ;-)

  78. [...] stickied Protection Paladin Cataclysm PVP Guide on the WoW Pally forum. The copy of the Guide on my blog has ~1000 comments. During my time in Cataclysm, I was the only Prot Pally rated 2k+ in the 2v2 and 3v3 Arena brackets [...]

  79. bloodniron says:

    Unsub’ing this thread… Becoming less and less relevant… Taugrim hasn’t played WoW in a year, no updates, etc… And I understand why. But I’m sticking with WoW as it is where I have some RL friends (could never get them to even try RIFT… and I have not logged into RIFT in over a month…) and I’ve invested a lot in WoW. Getting back into PvE tanking, and looking at a PvP build that is more tank-like… Good luck, one and all!

    • taugrim says:

      bloodniron :

      Unsub’ing this thread… Becoming less and less relevant… Taugrim hasn’t played WoW in a year, no updates, etc… And I understand why. But I’m sticking with WoW as it is where I have some RL friends (could never get them to even try RIFT… and I have not logged into RIFT in over a month…) and I’ve invested a lot in WoW. Getting back into PvE tanking, and looking at a PvP build that is more tank-like… Good luck, one and all!

      Take care man, and thanks for all your insightful comments!

      There look to be some positive changes coming for Prot Pallies in Mists of Pandaria.

    • Mavros says:

      Blood, its a shame to see you leave the thread, your comments during the past year have been very useful.
      Any tanking or PVP advice you can give I’ll be glad to have it.
      Best of Luck!
      Mavros@Quel’Thalas

    • Noop says:

      They are still useful advice. Details of each fine-tune itself.

      Blizzard has now nerf burst damage, no vengeance in pvp, but still playable prot PvP paladin.

      See you in the MoP

  80. Dave Jacobs says:

    Been a while since i’ve been here. Been playing ret and holy (holy for rbg), but lost the fun in the game tbh. Nothing compares (or compared) to my prot pally times.
    - Anyone still playing prot pala pvp and in what? bg fun, rbg as fc, arena?
    - What’s your current and best ranking?
    - How does prot pvp feel since the vengeance nerf? Thinks it’s still doable?

    • Kraetos says:

      I gave it a try last night, and as FC in RBGs it wasnt too bad. Battlegrounds just arent my thing though, and when I tried to arena it was woeful to say the least. Even 1v1 duels is just ridiculous. I think the benefits of playing ret right now (or to be more accurate, the lack of benefit for prot) are too big to ignore and that although you can still win arenas with a prot, its not going to be because of your amazing ability, but rather the fact that your partner can pick up ALOT of the slack.

      Makes me sad, but im getting pretty good with Ret (hit 1700 last night) and I think I’m going to keep it. We’ll have to see what the xpac brings but i’m not holding my breath.

  81. Jordan says:

    I haven’t played as much as I like, the last few months maybe only a few hours here and there.
    But I’m still into BGs (love php). FC and just general dps and support off-heals as prot…30 000-45 000 WoG heals are fantastic. And the 12k FoL heals are not bad either.

    I’ve got a good mix spec of prot/ret, with dps specced gear and trinks with 4.7k resilience. It’s all around awesome for everything in bgs. And world pvp.

    Polifema@Gorgonnash

    I’m tossing out usually 1.5-2 million damage per bg- usually warsong and arathi (my favs) With around 5-12 kills all depending on bg length and my role.

    Not bad, not the greatest. But it’s still a very fun and viable spec. I’m waiting on the mists of pandaria update (can’t fully stop playing as I purchased the annual pass..lol) and will see what the talents are like. They seem promising.

    I haven’t done arena in a while, my goal is 1550 in 2s. Or 3s. Highest I have achieved is 1520…sighhh.

    Prot POWA.

  82. Anthoneo says:

    I mostly play Ret now and have gone over 2200 in 3`s. Not a chance as Prot unfortunately, but I still FC as Prot in BGs and as long as I have at least one heals i’m usually good. But yeah the vengence nerf made a noticeable difference in Arena and even in BGs.
    Prot will always be my favourite. I can still 1v1 pretty much anyone in BGs as Prot, takes a while though and I prolly bore them to death lol

    I even rolled another Prot / Ret on another server lol.

    Hopefully MOP will have some good news for us.

    • bloodniron says:

      @Anthoneo, Good to see that you are hanging in there, howbeit in that ‘other’ spec, lol… I’ve been doing nothing but PvE dungeons/raids and working on acheivements and reputations (for acheivements) the past 2-3 months. My PvP gear is sitting in the bank :-(
      But there’s plenty of acheivements that I can work on in BGs and arena that I have not yet acheived…

      Oh, in my boredom, I switched to Draenei, so I can now say that Bloodniron has been all 5 paladin-friendly races. Started as Human, switched to Blood Elf and eventually Tauren, returned to Human, Dwarf briefly (I like dwarves, but Blood didn’t…), back to Human, and now Draenei. I like Draenei, as I’m a relatively big man (6’2″), and I love sci-fi themes… I like the healing racial. Comes in handy.

      Last few days I’ve actually been pondering returning to PvP as Ret myself, for now… I got burned out in a few PvP guilds that take this stuff wayyyy too seriously and at the same time, wayyy too immaturely. Most of the PvP guilds I’ve been in or talked with seemed populated by teenagers…

      Have you heard of an addon called CLCRet? It helps prioritize abilities for Ret.

  83. Whats the word on this now in days?? With MoP around the corner is there any hope for this build? I just started a Prot pally but now i wonder if i should do something else…

  84. Howdy I am so happy I found your web site, I really found
    you by accident, while I was searching on Aol for something else, Anyhow I am here now and
    would just like to say kudos for a marvelous post and a all round exciting blog (I also love the theme/design), I don’t have time to go through it all at the minute but I have book-marked it and also added in your RSS feeds, so when I have time I will be back to read much more, Please do keep up the superb job.

  85. Fernando, Taugrim has not updated this site since like 2011, he quick WoW, I do not believe he will be updating this site any more.

  86. taugrim says:

    Fernando, Taugrim has not updated this site since like 2011, he quick WoW, I do not believe he will be updating this site any more.

    Fernando was a link bot.

    I update this blog all the time, just not this particular guide :)

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