In this narrated battle, I earned my “Ace Tanker” Mastery Achievement for the VK 36.01 (H), one of the best tier 6 medium tanks in World of Tanks (WoT).
The VK 36.01 (H) has 3 notable strengths:
- the excellent Konisch gun: high penetration, accuracy, and DPM
- good armor
- functional mobility: 40 km/h, good acceleration
In terms of weaknesses, the tank has:
- soft Lower Front Glacis: this weak spot can be protected by angling and/or physical cover
- poor gun depression: can be problematic on some maps so choose your lines accordingly
This is the second video in a series of “Ace Tanker” WoT videos so I hope you enjoy it!
Next up: the Tiger II, a tier 8 German heavy tank. After that I may cover other mediums since the playstyle is so different from heavies.
Let me know your questions and feedback.
For more info on angling and weak spots, check out my guides:
Hi taugrim, I tried WoT based on your blog. I didn’t like it. I find the gameplay a bit exploitative with the spotting and view range mechanics. To explain: tanks are only rendered out to 500m (engine limit) and only show up when spotted by other players in radio range, i.e. out of cover and within view range of that tank. Players can spot other tanks even if they are viewing the tank from behind concealment. When spotted, tanks show up as a red outline that other players can see and shoot at even if they are behind concealment. This red outline persists for a while even if the tank moves
This means that if you have a high view range tank (like a hellcat) you can move up to a bush, spot enemy tanks, move behind the bush so that you don’t get spotted when fired and shoot the enemy before the red outline disappears. The opposing tank has no idea where the fire is coming from and basically doesn’t stand a chance.
Another example: I was playing assault karelia, and all our tds went up the hill to snipe. Then a chaffee scout on our team spotted the enemy team for us, and the tds just went about kiling everything. The enemy team didn’t stand a chance, they couldn’t see where our tds were only the scout tank. As we killed their forward tanks, our tds would move up to get within maximum rendering distance of their rear tanks as the scout lit them up. The enemy team couldn’t return fire and was sniped to death, and got punished for defending.
I find this sort of gameplay silly, unrealistic and just plain retarded. If I wanted to play a tank game I’d rather play something like Battlefield or Red Orchestra where it comes down to player skill to spot and aim tanks, rather than World of Tanks where 90% of the game is about exploiting nonintuitive and artificial game rules like spotting. I don’t even know why people consider win rate so highly since in pubs really who has the better scouts and arty will win most of the time, and win rate probably depends on how often you platoon since teams will follow you, and in a pair tanks can at as spotter/sniper duos, share hp and flank.
Also, a lot of the game feels like hazing rather than fun. With current day MMOs devs are trying everything to balance and even eliminate the gear grind in PvP (look at Guild Wars 2). In WoT, there’s a completely different philosophy. Not only the tiering, but he stock grind on some tanks is just pure pure evil. Also to use some tanks competitively the tank config needed may be completely different from what they had historically (e.g. 57mm is supposed to be best on Russian’s t-34, schmalturm on panther). Especially the panther: it just makes me cringe to see it with that turret and lolbarrel making it look nothing like a real panther.
I started following your blog because you have a penchant for trying unconventional builds with a bad reputation in the community and showing they can be used competitively (e.g. in World of Tanks you have a no gold ammo rule). I’m wondering if you could do a mastery badge series with some stock or historical config tanks, or tanks with a bad game rep. Everyone knows the russian heavies like the kv1s, cromwell, vk3601h and matilda are overpowered tanks, which you have done videos of. But how do you play some of the lolworthy tanks in the game effectively? I would particularly like you to do a video on the panther. I spent the sneaky sniper weekend and free premium grinding up to the panther (an iconic tank for me) and my god this tank has shortcomings. When I read the forums, apparently I shouldn’t have bothered since its apparently one of the worst tanks in the game. Stock, it has a gun that needs to flank to pen and even so it does low damage (this game is all about high alpha guns since in peek-a-boo and the campy style of play in WoT damage is dictated by the tank with the lower fire rate), but its so slow (slower than some heavies) that it has no chance to, has a major frontal weakspot and lol side armor, and horrible camo value so it gets spotted even when behind bushes and destroyed by invisible enemies. If you can do an ace mastery series on the stock panther you will have definitely earned super duper unicum status in the eyes of me if not the whole universe!!
You want master badge stock? My god man, it is hard enough to get fully equipped.
Agreed, I talked to that in detail in my reply to joanromba.
Hey taugrim I got my first ace tanker award today!!! yay
Gratz, quite the accomplishment with 85% crew and a jdpzIV in a tier 7 match.
Grats joan, that’s awesome :)
taugrim, I got my own vk3601h ace tanker award just now!!! Very fun tank to play and a really enjoyable and easy xp grind to the tiger. It was really annoying, got many 1-1.1k xp (no premium) games just outside of the mastery threshold, finally got the badge just as I reached 45k xp to unlock the tiger.
Sadly, I probably won’t play this tank once it’s turned into a heavy. I don’t really like the team responsibility of being a heavy (I don’t own a single heavy) and I would much rather prefer the independence of being a medium tank or tank destroyer. Also, I’ve seen the fate of heavy tank drivers: they blunder around in the blind with their crappy view range, then get shot to pieces from all sides. It’s much more fun being the medium tank that occupies the strategic points of the map at the start of the game, flanks, spots and shoots the heavies from the sides.
Yea, AFAIK the Mastery calculation does not count the Premium 50% bonus to Experience , which is how it should be. I just wish that WG showed Experience without Premium for all players, since right now Experience is an unusable metric since it’s apples-and-oranges across players.
The only material differences for the VK 36.01 (H) in the next patch:
1. alpha damage decreased by RoF increased, net-net about the same DPM
2. re-classification to heavy, which means the tank will have a 20% higher MM. This is the only really material change IMO
You play a tank based on its stats. E.g. both the VK 36.01 (H) and the next tank the Tiger (H) are built to be ranged fighters, not close-range brawlers.
Play the tank the way you feel is most effective. I snipe on my Russian heavies when the situation dictates it.
There are a lot of tweaks going on in the german tank tree, the tigerII, tiger, panther and several other tanks have received a buff to their ROF.
I managed to play a few games in the test server with the VK3601H and overall it is the same tank. Except hills, I barely noticed they touched the engine and suspension. Now that it is a heavy, it has a very generous 950 hitpoints which I believe makes it the Tier VI with the most HP.
While the changes to the Konisch are definitely a nerf, the 88mm received a slight buff to its RoF. As of right now I see it edging out the Konisch as the gun of choice. A very good gun at tier 6 but inadequate against tier 8.
Wow, that is a huge buff. Another 100 HP seems a bit much.
I would probably stick with the modified Konisch. Penetration is so critical in this game, and I’ve gotten used to running a high RoF / low alpha gun with the Cromwell.
I’ve thought about how to improve this and will talk to that below…
There is why the Hellcat is the highest-rated tank in all of Tier 6 on Noobmeter’s Tank Stats. It has killer camo/view mechanics, coupled with high speed and an excellent gun.
The enemy team got punished for allowing themselves to get hit from hill, and for not sending someone to carefully spot the TDs.
You can defend the base in Karelia Assault mode by staying on the NW side of rocks and sidescraping or finding rocks that have cover from the hill.
OK, so let me talk about some of the considerations and implications, because I’ve thought about how to better implement this too.
First of all, the game UI is played from the perspective of the player, not the NPCs inside the tank, e.g. the Commander who is inside the turret and spots targets.
The Commander is in a cramped vehicle, with limited viewports. If you wanted to have realistic spotting, it would need to be from the perspective/view of the Commander, and I think that would negatively impact the visuals for most gamers.
Second, I do think some kind of realistic spotting would improve the game. FPS games I’ve played, you spot by seeing movement / parts of an enemy player. You have to be looking in the right direction at the right time to “spot” someone.
Third, if a game has much more realistic spotting, depending on how it’s implemented you *may* lose some of the teamwork value you find in WoT. WoT isn’t necessarily realistic in some areas, but the mechanics create the context for teamwork being high value. I have anchored wins in tier 8 battles on my tier 6 medium Cromwell simply by keeping targets spotted and avoiding damage by using terrain and mobility. I spot, they kill. Or someone else spots, I kill.
I do wish that the stock gear was better and that the top gear was worse, i.e. the gap were narrower.
That said, I understand WG needs to create incentive that encourages players to pay money, and by golly it works. My guildees and I have commented on how well WG encourages a player to pay.
About the no gold ammo thing, I’m glad to have broken 1700 WN7 Rating for both Noobmeter’s last 1k battles and WoTLabs 60-day within my first 4100 battles:
When I started the game I was completely ignorant of the mechanics and that stats were publicly available. The latter have been helpful in improving my gameplay and measuring my progression as a tanker.
I actually haven’t made videos with the KV-1S nor Cromwell, but now that you mention it, I’ll de-prioritize the Cromwell (it was 2nd in line).
My Weak Spots video was made from footage with KV-3, which is regarded as a mediocre tank.
My next video will be on the Tiger II, which is ranked #13 out of 14 tier 8 heavy tanks. It’s the opposite of OP.
I’m planning on making a Centurion video, and that’s another tank not regarded as OP.
After that, my plan is to make an E-75 video, without the top gun, because well I got my “Ace Tanker” in my 4th battle using the top gun from the Tiger II.
Beyond all that though, I can’t predict when I’m going to get an “Ace Tanker” Mastery badge. IIRC, I got it within 3 battles on my KV-3 and 4 battles on my new E-75.
Sometimes I don’t get it until 200+ battles in.
TriumphSP already touched on this with his comment to you, but it is not easy to get an “Ace Tanker” badge. Your score needs to be better than the average of the high score of 99% of other players for the past week. That’s a high bar to reach and is the reason why many players with thousand of battles only have a handful of “Ace Tanker” Mastery badges.
It’s critical to recognize that to earn an “Ace Tanker” Mastery badge, you’re competing with players of the same tank. I believe it would be mathematically impossible in NA to get ATM badge on Panther with the stock L/70 gun and silver ammo, because you’re competing against other Panther players with better guns/gold ammo.
The tier 7 medium tanks in general have serious issues, most notably craptastic penetration, or in the case of the Panther’s top gun, the great penetration is partially offset by crappy alpha / DPM.
At any rate, it takes a lot of time to grind up tank lines. I’ve only played 2 tank lines to tier 9 and another one to tier 8.
For medium tanks, I have chosen to go with the British medium line, because it’s not regarded as OP and I wanted to do something a bit different.
Thanks for taking the time to write!
250 battle in the Panther 58% win rate and Master Badge
I’ve leveled 2 crews to 200% and used it to unlock both my Panther II and Tiger II. I have a little knowledge on using the Panther.
I would disagree with Ed and say it is quite possible to get Master Badge with the L/70, even with silver ammo. Gold ammo you could definitely get you a master badge. You only have to compete with scores from other Panthers after all.
However doing it with the stock turret would be about impossible. My best games, and the one that got me Ace, half of my score came from spotting damage. 350m view range vs 380m view range on the panther is close to a death sentence.
The British mediums are pretty damn good. The comet is a bit of a speed bump, but between their overall mobility, high penetration guns, troll turret armor, and excellent gun depression, they are quite the tanks.
The only reason they are not considered OP is the french and american autoloaders.
Try running the L/70 for a dozen games, let me know what your highest base Premium (i.e. without Premium factored in) score is.
Of course, gold ammo trivializes penetration.
Silver ammo on L/70: 150 pen
Gold ammo on L/70: 194 pen
That +44 is a huge difference.
Easy enough, about 700-800 base for a good game. 1000-1300 premium account. I did a lot of testing when I grinding through the VK3002DB post nerf. Its highest penetrating gun is the L/70, making it’s stock turret and stock gun the most viable silver option. Unfortunately gold does not trivialize penetration for the VK3002DB.
The problem with APCR ammunition is that it loses its effective penetration at distance much quicker than AP ammo. You are only looking at a slightly better base penetration at 400m+ from what I could test. When I looked it up, I confirmed it has a major drop off. 400-500m is the optimal range for the VK and Panther as their alpha damage is so poor but their guns are more accurate than the heavy tanks they face.
Against IS-3 and IS-6 at long ranges, AP ammo is actually more likely to penetrate despite APCR ammo having slightly higher penetration. This is due to gun arc. AP ammo is slower and thus has a much greater arc to it. An IS-6 with 100mm armor hit with a 198 penetrating round from an L/100 at point blank range with the round normalizing at 60 degrees would fail to penetrate an effective armor of 200mm.
However the same IS-6 could be penetrated by an L/70 at distance where the round impacted the armor at a normalization of 45 degrees making the effective armor 141mm. For a Panther with the L/100 it is generally easier to penetrate IS-6 & IS-3 at distance with AP rounds than APCR as the flat arc of gold rounds makes it more likely you will ricochet.
I think you’d need about 1400+ base XP to get Ace Tanker.
194 pen with gold is still very good for tier 7, considering the RoF. You’ll puncture targets to death, a la Matilda.
If you wanted to get Ace Tanker, you are going to have to take risks. Sitting back and sniping, when you probably won’t have many angles on opponents due to distance, won’t cut it.
well we can compare the two.
Dmg as %hp of highest hp tank and lowest hp tank 14.5%-22%
Avg time needed for kill Tier4 enemy tank con 9.56 – 14.5 seconds
Panther w Schmalturm Turret
Dmg as %hp of highest hp tank and lowest hp tank 9.3%-16.9%
Avg time needed to kill Tier7 enemy tank continuously firing 27.2 – 49.5 seconds
Dmg as %hp of highst hp tank and lowest hp tank 9.3%-16.9%
Avg time needed to kill Tie7 enemy tank continuously firing 28.4 – 51.6 seconds
So basically a panther requires 3 times as much time to kill tanks of the same tier as a matilda does.
Keep in mind that the same in general as you move up tiers, the time-to-kill also increases.
My point was that the Panther slinging gold ammo has a good RoF and you can essentially bleed opponents to death.
I’m not here to disagree, all I can tell you how I have had success with it. And I can tell you it is very hard to make effective trades with a gun that does 135 damage in a large tank, with not gun mantle, poor armor, terrible gun depression and mediocre to bad maneuverability.
You can do well with it, but it requires some creativity as most of the normal medium tactics send you back to the garage early.
I think it’s possible to do well with an underpowered tank, which the Panther is.
I just think it would be extraordinarily challenging for a player, even a very skilled one, earning an “Ace Tanker” with a stock Panther and silver ammo.
Thanks for your reply taugrim. I hope you do a guide on spotting/camo/view ranges. I think having a working knowledge of these elements are vital to doing well in the game. Certainly, when I was starting out in WoT I was failing miserably because I didn’t understand how these things worked. I would wonder on a map like abbey or el halluf why everyone was staying up on the hill when no enemies were around, charge valiantly and die to a mass fusillade of shells. Or I would shoot from behind a bush thinking I was safe (not knowing that you had to peek behind) only to get spotted and die. Then when I was grinding the pzIV and had my pz38na I probably royally screwed up my team because I didn’t know how important spotting was and what being a scout tank was.
Now that I’ve looked up these things I think my game has improved a lot. I even downloaded a map mod that shows the view range limits so I can make sure I’m not exposing myself.
Yet now that I have my panther I still see people in T9 games who don’t understand it, and will go chasing after scout tanks or otherwise expose themselves. Just yesterday i was playing a game where one flank was held only by heavies (is and kvs) who tried attacking up the northeast sniper hill in redshire. I could predict exactly what would happen and even said it in chat. With their poor view ranges they were shot to pieces by tank destroyers without seeing who was shooting them.
Despite being extremely important, how spotting works is not really explained in the game. You would expect your tank’s view range value in the garage would be an absolute value, right, but actually its modified by camo and crew skills. The game doesn’t even show what camo value your tank is. A video on spotting from you I think would be of great help to all tankers.
Well, for starters here’s what I recommend for non-heavy tanks:
1. mount Coated Optics so that you have a +10% always-on bonus to View Range, which helps heaps for spotting them before they can spot you.
2. take the Situational Awareness skill on your Radio Operator as the 1st or 2nd skill
3. after you get Sixth Sense for your Commander, take the Recon skill
All three of these stack together.
Make sure no part of your tank is exposed, even the gun poking through the bush, or the camo won’t work to the full extent. I often pan the camera around to see from the frontal view whether I am in full cover.
Yea, it’s unfortunate when players are essentially suiciding due to the disparity in spotting mechanics, e.g. heavies advancing against TDs (or mediums) under heavy cover.
This game harshly penalizes stupidity.
This is part of learning curve for the game. The Battle Mechanics section on the Wiki has a very detailed explanation on Visibility but it’s complex.
Most of what I’ve learned is from reading, talking to other tankers, and watching what other players do.
I have a list of other topics (WoT and otherwise) that I want to cover, but I’ll keep in mind the request for material that covers Spotting.
The gun barrel doesn’t count as a spotting point. If you look at the wiki for visibility, you can see that there are a couple of viewpoints, places where your tank looks for enemies. Also, there are sightpoint where if an enemy can see those, your tank becomes visible. The barrel of the gun is not counted in that. From personal experience, I have poked the gun barrel out of bushes many times, and it hasn’t caused me to get spotted.
Ah you are right, thanks for that correction.
“. I believe it would be mathematically impossible in NA to get ATM badge on Panther with the stock L/70 gun and silver ammo, because you’re competing against other Panther players with better guns/gold ammo.”
It’s possible! I just got ace mastery and top gun with a new t-34 with the turret and second 75mm gun unlocked (lol 86mm of penetration and I don’t use premium ammo after your standard)
Gratz certainly an amazing game with that crew and that gun.
And while I agree it’s possible, especially with my recent win that got me ATM on the Panther/M10, I would not encourage anyone to try and get Master Badge as a stock panther.
@joanromba Now im curious for how long did you play the game and what Tier did you reach?
Can’t wait for tthe Tiger II Video, one of my favorite tanks in the game and the reason why I can’t brawl with other heavy tanks. I always try to snipe with heavy tanks since it worked so well with the Tiger :(
There is a reason why the Tiger II on Noobmeter’s Tank Stats is ranked 13th out of 14 tier 8 heavy tanks: it has significant weak spots that must be managed carefully.
My Tiger II footage is extensive brawling (city fighting) so I’ll talk about that in detail.
Problem with my feedback or replies?
No, busy IRL.
Ok. I do not wish to bother people, I’ve had a lot of free time of recent for the computer as an injury has kept me off my feet.
Sorry to hear that. I hope you heal quickly and well.
List of upcoming potential changes.
The two most overpowered tanks, the T57, and the Foch 155 seem to be on the hatchet list.
There also seems to be a general nerf to TD’s coming soon. I’d personally like to see a nerf to view range and a mild nerf to camo rating on TD’s.
I read SerB say sometime in the last month that TDs were not going to be nerfed and the typical “how terrible” response to people complaining about them.
The autoloaders are pretty problematic – the upside of being able to chain together compact burst far outweighs the long load times in the majority of situations.
TDs became relatively more powerful once arties were nerfed and camo was nerfed for lights and mediums. Some tweaking makes sense.
Out of curiousity, do you think all auto loaders are too strong? Or the new American ones. Not sure if you were playing tanks back when the first auto loaders were introduced. They came out, and were nerfed several times. Now they put the American line in, and generally, it outperforms the french versions. Intra drum fires are much better and drum reloads are much better. Not sure why they didn’t follow the same mold.
In a 1v1, you can certainly feel the sting if you don’t have enough HP to weather their storm. In groups though, aggression is the usual answer. Their DPM is usually much weaker than anything else. Save the OP T57, that gets both insane burst and great DPM. Not sure what WG was thinking about that tank.
I started playing WoT 4 months ago, during Patch 8.4.
So I missed a lot of the “fun” old days when tanks were MM’d against each other despite tier differences greater than 2, etc.
Autoloaders are pretty powerful. The drum reload time tends to be very long, north of 30 seconds, but that said, in many cases it’s not a problem:
1. if you are in a multiples fight (e.g. 4v4), you can hide behind your allies while you reload
2. if you are in a 1v1 context, with a full drum you stand a reasonable chance to burst your ally to death
There is a reason the Bat Chat 25 and AMX Foch 155 are very popular, as are the T69/T54A1/T57, and the various French light tanks with autoloaders.
An autoloader with a high rate of fire can also re-track a target that already burned their repair kit, which can be brutal for aiding friendly focus fire.
T57 as you mentioned seems incredibly strong now. I heard that they’re going to get balanced, so we shall see.
One thing that is worth mentioning. I can’t recall where the stats are, but typically, auto loaders aren’t the tanks with the highest win percentage over random battles. Right now the top 10 is a domain owned by TDs (though the obvious exception to this is the Foch 155). The T57 is close to that, but its not on that list. The only non TD to make it was the KV-2.
So while in the right hands, auto loaders are strong, it doesn’t seem to quite make it over to the majority of random battles.
Auto loaders require a much higher skill cap to use effectively but when used well they excell.
They have more challenges to their use than just long reload times. Typically they have very poor armor and soft stats. Painfuly long aim times and piss poor dispersion are the worst offenders.
Something someone brought up that post where Serb trolled the entire community, was that historically the auto loader required the tank to be stationary when they loaded a new clip. Serb said WG thought that would slow down the pace of a game so they made auto loaders able to function while that tank moves.
But personally, I think forcing auto loaders to remain stationary to reload might actually be a really good idea.
I just got my Ace Tanker in my Pz.V/M10 premium tank. The P/M10 is pretty much a slightly improved stock panther. It runs the L/70 gun.
I used 2 rounds of gold ammo. One I wasted on a hellcat and the other I used on a IS who turned his front to me… and then my team killed :(
My non premium xp score was 1,232 beating my panther L/100 score of 1150 (I looked it up the other day)
I guess the point is that it would have been very possible to do it in a stock panther. However, I doubt I would keep playing any tank with an L/70 that sees Tier VIII battles without gold ammo. Which is a bit of a paradox since the only reason I can do well with consistency in a Panther is having played one so much.
Grats! Sounds like you had a great game.
The thing to remember is that a premium tank has fixed modules, so it’s a level playing field relative to other drivers of that tank in terms of “Ace Tanker” Mastery. There is no disparity as there would be when playing a stock Panther vs a fully-researched Panther.
But anyway, grats :)
Hey taugrim, Ileft a similar message on ur Facebook page , but am not sure how much you check it…but Allods online after well reaching practically a breaking point, the developers are finally going to create a subscription based play of the game for the NA server, although the price isn’t know yet. They are removing the runes, Combat Mounts, and Patronage 5 from the game. So it will actually be a balanced game, I know you said these were reasons you stopped playing it before but, now that they are fixing it would I’m curious if you would consider trying it out again?
Link 1 http://allods-forum.gpotato.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64121
link 2 http://allods-forum.gpotato.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64229&sid=9n3jugvopthb0ra7p77dl172a2
A vid of the subscription Russian server vid
I have to apologize for posting this here, but I couldn’t find another thread releveant or up to date on this topic…
Second announcement for allods online sub server. Confirmed
link here: http://allods-forum.gpotato.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64314&sid=4taqjssbt95g8ia0bbs2vq4q74
7 day Allods free trial for sub server
https://www.facebook.com/AllodsOnlineen … 4&app_data
Last one. They officially announced the Na sub server date as October 3rd and the pricing u can check it out here
World of tanks is so addicting I cant stop playing it. Have you tried world of War Plans yet it is AMAZING TOO! http://thebigmmorpglist.com/world-of-warplanes/
So what happened to Taugrim?